Episode 2: The Fall is Coming, an interview with Nick Connolly

Welcome to our podcast– The Jess Connolly Podcast! 

This podcast is for you. It’s not my podcast, it’s ours. It’s for women who crave light-hearted conversations and deeply spiritual truths. It’s for the women who are busy, tired, waiting, growing, dreaming, working, or praying about what’s next. 

On this episode, Jess sits down with her husband and Bright City Church Pastor, ⁠Nick Connolly⁠ to talk about Fall. Nick gives wisdom and insight to a season of busyness! Together, they share what they’ve learned in the past 10 years and hope to encourage and equip you to step into this next season with grace and freedom! 

Whether you’re listening in the messy, the mundane, the quiet, or the busiest season ever - We’ve been praying for you and We’re so glad you’re here.

Let’s Go. 

Don’t Miss: 

⁠We’ve got a free gift for you⁠: Fall into Freedom is back and its FREE! We’ve shortened this guide and our hope it that it helps you enter this season well! . 

Episode Transcript:

0:02

This is how I picture you.

You are a woman who wants to love God, your people, and you want to use what you've got to change the world.

But if you're like me, you also want to actually live, to be awake, joyful, and energized enough to actually be present for your life.

0:22

We are women who want to live as daughters of God and human beings, not just workers who are constantly doing.

On top of that, we're fighting a culture of reactive defeat, one that assumes exhaustion is inevitable instead of fighting for rest.

0:41

We are surrounded by people who idolize busyness over a sustainable pace, and most of us are used to being rewarded for pushing past our human boundaries and limitations.

If you're like me, you sometimes wonder if you're so busy living life that you might be missing it.

0:58

I wonder if maybe sometimes your fatigue is even louder than the voice of God.

And I wonder if sometimes it's just easier for you to live on autopilot, stuffing your emotions, your desires, your pain, even your joy.

1:14

You don't want to sleepwalk through life.

I don't either.

But who has time and energy to even know what living fully awake would look like?

So here's the thing.

Jesus came to purchase abundant life for us.

1:30

But is this it?

Did he mean for us to live exhausted and overwhelmed burden with impossible expectations and heavy, laden with shame?

I know we want to live in awe of God, to run on mission and joyful surrender and not just sleepwalk through our days.

1:48

If these are the questions you're asking, or if this sounds like your life, you're in the right spot.

I'm just Connolly, and honestly, this is our podcast, a space for you and I to be curious about how we can live fully awake with God.

2:09

Seasons have feelings, right?

Each of us probably has a sense of what each season holds and means.

Maybe you hate summer because you hate being sweaty.

Or maybe you love winter because it holds holidays and family gatherings.

2:25

Maybe spring it makes you hopeful.

Or maybe it makes you sad for some sentimental reasons.

But here's how I feel about fall.

It terrifies me.

Have lived enough adult years to know that the pace of fall is almost always crippling, from community events to kids activities.

2:43

I'm not sure why, but even work deadlines feel more intense to me in the fall.

I rarely have a free Saturday in this season, and as much as I want to savor the leaves falling in the pumpkin patches, it always seems to be coming so fast and so furious.

2:59

I am exhausted.

So today we're talking about fall, how to get ready for it, how to try and actually enjoy it, and how to set some sustainable rhythms that will help you feel fully awake in Jesus name.

3:16

I have my best friend and my husband with me today on the podcast.

Those are one in the same person, so let's take a deep breath and dive right in.

Nick Connolly, thank you for being on the Jess Connolly Podcast.

Thanks for having me.

You were a semi frequent visitor on the Go on Tell Girls podcast.

3:33

But this is you know as it is only episode 2 you are it's your first time frequent, so frequent.

So frequent.

OK, I did tell you, I have a tiny left turn that I want to take at the top of this episode.

Go for it.

It's a question I want to ask you.

OK.

It kind of has to do with the fact that you're on the podcast right now.

3:51

OK, so when I told people that we were making the shift from the Go and Tell Gals podcast to the Jess Connolly podcast, the number one request that I heard slash suggestion that I heard was you have to have Nick on the podcast more.

4:08

I've told you this.

Yeah, OK.

I've heard this from listeners.

OK, I heard it from marketing consultants who are like, hey, if you were gonna do the podcast and as Jess Connolly, you need Nick on it.

You don't need me.

OK, well, I want you to hold that.

4:25

So I do notice this thing about you and I.

We actually love working together.

We really do.

That's not a farce.

We love working together.

We love teaching together.

You and I love Co teaching.

I got so excited today.

I was like, oh, I get to film a podcast with Nick.

I can't wait.

It's just because we get to spend time like this is the only time we'll see each other today a little bit.

4:45

But do you get ever a little bitter when people suggest that, like, I should be at things like, oh, you should have just do that?

I think like a little bit sometimes when people are like, oh, the podcast would be so great if you had Nick on it.

I'm like, I'm a whole person.

I'm OK without Nick too.

5:02

Sometimes I'm worth coming to the party even if he's not there.

So flip flop, I feel like my in in like very beautiful ways like your ministry has been different than mine in that it's a little more forward facing.

5:20

And so all I hear is like Jess gonna be here or where is Jess?

Or so I'm giving you an opportunity to say it annoys you a little bit.

It doesn't.

It's got it.

No, it doesn't.

You're the better half.

That's not true and I think you're the better half.

So it's.

And I I know my my podcast is better when you're on it.

5:37

I agree.

But I know my limitations.

And you are the fun one like you are the.

I'm not, I'm the That's what everybody thinks.

But we need to tell them the truth.

Who is the more fun one out of the two of us?

To be honest, makes jokes.

But I don't think I'm more fun.

That's not true.

5:54

OK, real.

The other In our real, actual life, behind closed doors, who's more fun?

You need to be honest.

Well, that's the point I'm trying to make is that you're more fun forward facing.

Yeah, I'm fake fun.

You're fake fun, Okay.

6:11

Even I'm gonna take it this part.

Do you remember somebody told me this?

They said, hey, whenever you have a photo shoot, you need to make sure Nick is there.

You're a better you when he's there.

I felt so loved and seen by that not having you in the pictures.

They were like, he just needs to be in the room, which you know we are.

6:29

The Kingdom is better off with you and I together.

I 100% believe that.

I don't want to do anything without you.

I don't do everything with you.

I feel the same way.

I just don't want people to think that I can't do things without you and I.

Don't think anybody ever would.

I don't.

You do?

So many things without me.

No, I do so many things.

6:45

But I do think it would be frustrating for you if people thought you couldn't do things without me, cuz you are a whole capable person without me.

I feel that way.

But also, I do know that there are things that go better when you are in the mix.

Yeah, But in a lot of ways I hold you back because I'm not fun.

That's not true.

That's not true.

7:00

I don't know.

Anyhow, I'm glad you're here.

I'm sure after this first episode everybody's gonna be like, why don't we just call it the Jess and Nick Connelly podcast?

But you are coming out with your own podcast.

I would like to.

I'm making that public right now.

I would like to.

I'm putting my feet in the proverbial water.

7:17

If you.

Am putting my feet in the water as well?

Yeah, I have.

I mean, we've been talking about it for a while now and I think it kind of joins together a few things that I love to do.

Yeah, but also I think would be helpful for people.

I hope it'll actually serve a lot of people.

7:33

I hope it would be helpful if I was going to be really awful.

I would just go ahead and tell you say what the name of it is right here.

But we haven't decided that, so that would be awful.

Some of us haven't decided.

But also, this is the story of our relationship is I literally can't remember.

I know if you shared it a big.

7:50

Oh yeah, that's what we talked about.

We were at dinner last night and I you said what, are you gonna call a podcast?

And I said, babe, I named it for you like six months ago.

And you said, what was it?

And then you did, you did take out your phone and write it down.

OK.

Last night.

OK.

8:05

So Speaking of last night, yes, we did not go to dinner last night to talk about this podcast episode.

We, you and I actually went to dinner last night because of a random stroke of luck.

We had like 45 minutes alone and our kids were occupied.

But when we went to dinner, the content of this episode is what we talked about because it's very authentic to us in that it's almost fall.

8:31

Yes.

And I am terrified.

So to set the scene for you last night, a very authentic moment in the Connolly marriage.

We go, we have 45 free minutes.

We had to be out of our house.

Yep.

We go to our local Mexican restaurant.

8:46

Favorite spot, best spot in Charleston.

There's chips and salsa on the table.

There is.

I'm gently crying.

A little bit, I would say.

Teary eyed.

Teary eyed, yes.

And basically saying like, are we gonna do this again?

9:03

What's wrong with me?

Why does it always feel like this in the fall?

In the fall, Yeah, yeah.

So I really just want to dive into it, OK?

And I want you to bring all your wisdom.

But the first question I want to say I'm asking as an outside source, Why is the fall so busy?

9:20

Why does it feel like this?

So to me, this is how I've always seen the fall.

The fall to me is the beginning of the year for us, and I know that everyone acts like January is, but I don't know why.

I've just always felt like fall is the beginning of the year to us.

9:36

And so for me, the fall is the the starting of everything again, whereas January is like recalibration for me at least.

And I think you feel that way, but I minus your goals.

I feel like you're a huge goal person.

Well, I am a goal person, but I've learned to be such a gentle goal person that I don't try to change the world on January 1.

9:54

I know.

But yeah, I mean, we've talked about it.

It's your national holiday.

It is.

I do care about January one.

Yeah.

More than almost any other day of the year.

Yeah.

And so I think what you're probably feeling emotionally is.

The pressure of the New year starting, I think you're right.

10:12

I think you're feeling everything starting up at once.

The reason I think there's a knee jerk reaction or almost like a whiplash to the fall is because we, you know, hopefully by God's grace, you're falling into some sort of rest.

In the summer.

Yeah.

And so therefore, you're going from zero to 60 is is essentially what's happening.

10:31

And so I think for us, that's why it tends to feel a little more jolting.

Yeah, you're right.

You know, everyone listening to this doesn't live the same rhythms that we live.

Yeah.

And so maybe their summer is a little more heavier.

But you know, I mean, every job is different.

10:47

Like our teachers who go to our church, like, you know, in the summer, like it.

Is so incredible when I don't see them at church in all the best ways.

Cuz I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're living.

You're doing best life right now so that you can be ready for the fall.

Yeah.

And so I think the same would be set for us as you know, trying to figure out how we slow down over the summer is great, but then once the fall gets here, it just hitch in the face.

11:09

Yeah, let's identify some of the characteristics of what feel like they're starting again.

So obviously for us, we have school aged kids.

We do, and it feels like a lot of pressure to get them ready.

The school supply situation alone, I want to buy school supplies.

11:25

I want to bless the teachers.

I don't want teachers buying school supplies.

Yes, it's a lot to buy school supplies for four kids right now.

It does tend to take up a bulk of the budget.

It's in the three different schools.

It's always literally at least $1000.

Sometimes more, sometimes more.

11:40

Yes, And it's one night on Amazon where I need people to, like, feed me grapes and rub my feet while I go over every single list.

I can't do this in a store anymore.

Yeah, we're past that.

Yeah.

And it that doesn't even account for the uniforms that they have to wear in public schools then.

11:55

So it's then we have to do the uniforms.

Yeah, but today I had to stop middle of the work day, go get a kid.

A physical, a sports physical, because that's the thing.

It's sports practices.

Yep.

This is all just kids.

Yes.

Getting them acclimated, dealing with their hearts, their souls, you know, supplies.

12:12

Meet the teacher.

Night orientation.

New schedules, Book bags.

New rhythms for them.

That's just them Then you and I have.

Church.

We have church and our church is specifically lets things get really light and easy during the summer.

We have a different pace.

12:28

We have a different pace.

And then in the fall, it's groups, it's new group orientation, it's worship kickoff night, it's staff meetings are starting up again.

It's all of that.

On top of that, my business, yes, we have our own fall rhythm specifically for us.

12:43

We do coaching certification in the fall.

Just one of the biggest things we do all year where we certify women in our coaching process and during the fall we're interviewing them.

We're starting that process.

I'm coaching them once a week.

It's my favorite thing to do all year.

It's a whole thing in and of itself.

13:00

It happens now.

It happens right now.

So those are just some of our big buckets.

But then there's like people coming back in from out of town.

Community is a big stressor for me.

And when I say stressor, it's so happy.

But people are coming back in from summer rhythms and they're like, hey, we should get coffee, let's get together.

13:17

Would you want to disciple me?

You know, I just joined a new gym, so, but I got my gym.

It's like, hey, we should get coffee.

I'm like absolutely, that's what I want to do.

But you don't have any hours.

I don't know when we're gonna do it.

I literally, I I This is a true story today, a gal at my gym that I'm friends with.

By the way.

13:32

I haven't told you this yet.

OK?

Was like, hey, let's have coffee.

Which, you know, I love making new friends at my gym.

She said, let's have coffee.

I said, how about August 30th?

Today is August 7th.

Yes, that was the soonest I could do it.

Yes.

I don't like that.

I know, but I I think that I mean, so going back to our favorite little.

13:52

Hispanic spot yeah we're hanging out having food and and I think for you you have a high capacity with to do's but you carry the pressures of the people more than anything.

Like your people backpack.

I want people to take.

14:08

I want people to be loved.

Yeah, you you really want to make sure everyone's cared for.

Yeah.

And the hard part of that is I, and even in in our life is we've gone through a little bit of a stretching, jumping from preteen to teen.

And so that's changed a lot of things.

14:23

And then our church is jumping through, you know, a new season where I think we're going to experience some, Some I've been calling them, growing.

Instead of growing pains, growing promises, yeah.

So we're experiencing some of those things.

And so it comes with new challenges.

14:39

But in all of those things are our people, and people are the, you know, the thing that you carry the most because you care.

Yeah.

OK.

I want to say one more thing before we thank you for saying that.

Thank you.

It does feel a lot.

A lot because I care, but I've got to, I've got to care in a more sustainable way, which, and I'm only sharing this because I think it is probably relatable for a lot of women.

14:59

Oh my gosh.

You know, I think I'm probably not the only person who feels this way, you know?

So one thing I wanna say about you and I, which is interesting cuz it's interesting as I'm kind of like airing these thoughts about Fall real time as they're happening, is that this is what happened with me with summer about 10 years ago.

15:16

Okay.

But do you remember I hated summer?

Do you remember That was sweet of you to infer that?

Carry on.

Wait, I don't remember at all.

But it was sweet of you to say.

Oh, do you remember?

No, that's how we came up with the whole summer to Thrive guide because I hated.

Summer it is in my mind palace.

15:33

You didn't remember that I hated summer?

It's in the Mind Palace, but I don't carry the knowledge of you hating summer.

I appreciate it.

I.

Carry on.

It ignite my memory.

So about 10 years ago, OK.

I would say it was right around the time we moved to Charleston.

OK, which is a summer city.

15:50

Summer city.

It comes alive in the summer.

I realized I actually hate summer.

I dread summer.

There were a couple of reasons why I hated summer.

I didn't like the lack of consistency, I didn't like the lack of rhythms.

I hated the weather because I really struggled with body image issues.

So I didn't want to be in warm weather clothes all the time.

16:08

So that is really a big part for me of when my journey, the bringing free from body shame, came in.

Wow, praise God I got over that.

You better than anybody know that I don't mind a warm weather clothing option at this point.

Yeah, I love to walk around in warm weather clothes, yes, yeah.

16:27

But I still hated the rhythms and lack of consistency.

So around this time, about 10 years ago, I created the Summer to Thrive guide, which was really just a coaching program for myself.

Yes.

Then we began selling it as a business.

Thousands of women used it, thousands upon thousands.

This year we actually just gave it away for free.

16:44

But I think that this is a little bit what I do because I did ask you this question this week.

I asked you, tell me, Nick, what is my deal?

I kind of feel like this is the first episode of your podcast.

Spoiler alert, This is what Nick's podcast is going to be like.

17:02

But not with me, with other people.

I said, what's the deal with me, babe?

Is it that I'm high capacity and because I'm high capacity and I have a lot on my plate that I have to have a lot of structure and help?

Yeah.

Or is it that I'm so low capacity that I have to have so much structure and so much help?

17:23

And I don't actually even want you to answer that right now because that sounds like I was fishing for a compliment, but I wasn't.

This is like a real thing that I struggle with.

Yes.

Yeah.

I just need a lot of structure and a lot of self coaching to make it through a season.

So.

But what I'm noticing about myself is that when I identify a problem and I think, oh maybe other people struggle with this, I want to start the conversation and I want to dig in.

17:46

I want to make resources.

So we have actually, in the past, through my business, made a guide called Fall into Freedom because I started realizing I struggled with this.

And I'm gonna tell you at the NS podcast, we're gonna give away a condensed version of it because the actually, the other one was too long.

18:02

It was too much.

When you're overwhelmed, you don't need 30 pages, you need three.

So we're gonna give that away to you for free at the end of this episode, which is?

One of my other favorite things about you is that you are not overwhelmed by a 30 page plan.

I'm not.

I need like one page.

Yes, you need 30.

If we are at coffee and you ask me a question about your life, you should expect that tomorrow I'm gonna send you a 30 page PDF.

18:22

Exactly.

Yeah, But what I'm trying to say is, I really do believe that this tension point I'm feeling right here is because there's a lot of freedom on the other side.

Yes, And I really do believe Second Corinthians 12/9, his power has made perfect in our weakness.

And I believe that God is even letting me experience a lot of this, like what I experienced last night, gently crying over chips and salsa with you, because there's going to be a level of freedom on the other side of this.

18:48

Fall in particular for me, I believe.

And I'd like to air it real time so we can walk through this together.

Because in this podcast, you know, we're talking about living fully awake and not buying this lie that we have to sleepwalk or just get through or just survive, but that we actually are going to walk in the abundance that Jesus purchased for us.

19:06

So I'm kind of throwing down the gauntlet about fall and saying I'm not doing it.

I'm not going to just get by anymore.

I want to live, yes.

So my question for you is what's at stake if we don't fight, if we don't push past the status quo of like, I'm busy, tired, but good, you know, it's busy, we're fall, blah, blah, like, ah blah.

19:29

Like even that joke we made at beginning, like this is the only time we'll see each other.

Like what's at stake if we actually don't push past that?

Yeah, that's a great question.

One of the things that I try to communicate in my book is that.

The greater the resistance, the greater reward on the other side.

19:46

Usually don't think that we're not going to come back to you, just soft launching your book.

I'm not soft launching anything.

I'm just.

I don't know.

I'll come back.

To that you can come back to that.

But the greater the resistance, the greater the reward is on the other side.

Usually, yeah.

And so anytime that we're, we're experiencing resistance a lot of times at least.

20:03

You know, in my past I was just like, man, I feel like I'm heading in the wrong direction.

Like I feel like I'm not.

Heading where God wants me to be, but I've found in my own life is that the greater the resistance is actually proof sometimes that I'm heading in the right direction.

Yeah.

So I think if you're experiencing the resistance that you have, you know, as you're talking about fall, it's like, well, it's probably because these are the things that you're supposed to be doing.

20:29

These are the streets in life that you're supposed to be walking down, like.

And so I think, but I would say First off is just, you know, being encouraged with that, that there's resistance because of the ability to head in the right direction of trying to serve the Kingdom, trying to love people, trying to do all the things that we know to be right.

20:49

And and I think if I don't, I'm trying to figure out a good way to say this.

But if it's like, life is full of, like, vacations all the time, every day.

And, you know, we're just posting about vacations, like, that's probably not us heading in the right direction.

When it comes to the Kingdom, Yeah.

21:05

It's like we got arrest.

But at the same time, we've got to get going and do the thing that God's called us to do.

And so, yeah, Anyway, I just, I think the idea that you're experiencing the resistance, you're experiencing the tension, you're experiencing all these things means that there's probably a payoff and reward on the other side.

And so, you know, what we've been talking about lately is anytime you're experiencing growth, you know, we always couple that with pains.

21:26

But it's actually when we're experiencing growth, it's a film of God's promise.

And so when he's fulfilling his promise, you know, there's a pain point on that path to the promise.

I don't know too many people in the Bible that experience pain free processes.

21:42

But the beautiful thing about this process is that it makes this end of the people that we are supposed to be for him.

So anyway, I know that's not encouraging because it's like, oh, just hang in there, it'll get better.

I mean, it will get better, but it'll probably still be harder.

Like, it'll still be a climb.

It'll still be something that you've got to push through.

21:59

It'll still be something that you've got to persevere and persist through.

However, there's just a harvest on the other side when we do do those things.

I mean, we've seen that a lot with our teenagers.

It's just awkward angst, yeah, And hilarious conversations.

22:18

Half of the conversation being in a language that we don't necessarily understand.

And you know, every time you're pushing through those hard conversations and weird conversations, you know, you just feel like you get a little bit of more of a piece of their heart.

And so I I think that's with everything in life is when we're pushing through those hard moments, we're getting a little more of God and a little more of his promises that he has for us in life.

22:42

So the Fall is no exception to that.

Yeah, that's good.

I think there are a couple people listening right now, maybe more than a couple who are thinking, is he always this gentle with her and is she always this messy with him?

22:58

And I want to say yes, I really mean it.

Because also again, I want to be vulnerable and transparent with our friends.

There are not many people in my life that I am this.

Tender with It's hard for me to be really messy with people and tender to a level.

23:16

I can be transparent.

I never want to be disingenuous.

I can be transparent, but it's hard for me to be super vulnerable with people.

But God has.

One thing that God has done over 18 years of marriage with us is that you have become a very soft place for me to land.

So I really, if you're wondering.

23:31

Did that actually happen?

Did we actually over chips and salsa?

Me.

I mean, I think I started with like, are you disappointed at me?

Are you mad at me?

And you were like what?

Not at all.

But I wanna just thank you for being so gentle and affirming and compassionate in your response.

23:50

I wanna say if you're thinking like, wow, I wish someone would talk to me like that, you guys.

That's why I That's why I wrote a book.

I wasn't gonna say that's why I made him write a book, cuz he did it.

I didn't make him.

God told him to.

But that's why your book is so important.

24:06

And I'm not gonna soft launch it anymore than that because you need to announce it on your own social media account in your own podcast, which is coming.

But that is what the book is.

Yeah, it's a very soft place to land for people who are very weary.

24:23

Yeah.

And I and I don't like, I think the culture and I'm not saying this because of me.

I'm saying this in light of of everyone always, especially within the body of Christ.

Like culture and in religion are so harsh and one of the most beautiful things about Jesus is he gives you a compassionate place to land.

24:43

Yeah.

And so when you know one of our favorite everyone I'm saying ours and like everyone's favorite versus is Matthew 11 I think 28 through 30 it's like come to me all who are weary and heavy laden like we're all weary like we're all tired. 100% hashtag.

24:58

Tired of being tired.

Like we're all doing the things that we're we're tired of.

And so I think the more compassion we can, you know, extend to other people, the better.

And it only helps people like push through.

It helps them keep going.

And so I feel like you are compassionate as well, especially 10 years of church planting.

25:19

Yeah, well, thank you.

I'm grateful for you.

That being said, you're so gentle with me.

I have actually asked you like could you give me a little more correction?

Sometimes I need that.

I need somebody to keep me in line but you.

But it's probably your personality is you.

You enjoy conflict like, not like.

25:36

I'm not scared of conflict, Not enjoy you appreciate discourse.

I appreciate pressure.

Yes, I appreciate pressure.

Pressure, yeah.

So if it's encouragement, I like it to be an intense pressure of encouragement.

25:53

So that means if you just say to me like, hey, babe, I love you.

You look nice today.

I don't hear that.

Yes, I I hear.

I didn't hear when you say like, stop everything.

Yes, you are.

The most beautiful woman I've ever seen.

That's what I hear, cuz I appreciate pressure that would actually ruin some people's lives.

26:11

Yes, you know, And in the same way, if I'm off course in some way, in any way, a lot of times your more gentle approach would be like, hey, tell me more about how you're feeling or what's going on in that head of yours, you know?

Or like what could I do to help you?

Where sometimes I crave you to say.

26:29

What are you doing?

Like, what's your deal?

But I appreciate that you don't do it my way and that way.

All that being said, I'm getting to a point here.

What I want to ask you is, having seen my life the last 10 years, having seen this trajectory of what happens to me in fall, I maybe take on a little bit too much.

26:48

I this is something I think a lot of women can relate to.

I want to love people well.

I want to love God well.

I want to serve well.

I want to show up well.

I want to have healthy rhythms.

I want to do the things.

And then I get to a level of stress that is not necessarily sustainable.

Yes.

And then I spin out, yes, having seen that pattern in my life, the cycle that I would say is not unfamiliar to many women.

27:10

Yes.

Is there some kind of correction, encouragement, admonishment that you would like to give me before false starts also?

We do the same cooking.

Yes, in cooking.

Like if I'm cooking, Yes.

Art, what we have found, works.

Nick is better at cooking.

27:26

That's a gentle way to say he cooks very well and I don't.

And So what we found is, if I'm going to cook something, the best thing for me to say is, before I start, tell me everything I need to know, tell me everything you need to tell me, and then we'll debrief afterwards.

Or, yeah, you know, whatever.

Cuz nobody likes you being, like just a little more salt.

27:43

Yes, I wouldn't do that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

The question you're asking is there any helpful coaching tips that pre?

Fall Pre, Fall Pre Spin.

Well, I think one of the things we talked about last night was as we get more seasoned, yeah, as we get more wised.

27:59

I just turned 40, and I am appreciating a good no.

Yeah.

Because a good no means that there's probably some other yes that has to happen.

And it's usually something that God has for me.

And so I think that has been an interesting thing because when you're in your high, late 20s to, you know, it's even in your 30s, you're like, Oh my gosh, like opportunity.

28:25

This is incredible.

Like.

There's a season for throwing spaghetti up on the wall.

And seeing what sticks And just like, Oh my gosh, another opportunity, another opportunity, another opportunity.

And then by the time you get 40, you're like, Oh my gosh, another opportunity or, you know, another thing and you have to really take before God is is the thing.

28:44

And so, you know, last night I didn't say that you should do this, but I've been trying to in the best way that I can literally ask God, am I supposed to do this or is this supposed to be something that I do?

Or am I supposed to say yes to this, which is sounds funny and it's not like, God, should I take out the trash or God, should I feed my kids tonight?

29:07

That's what I'm talking about.

But, you know, just capturing the things that I have to do or might feel the pressure to do and be like, hey, is this actually what God wants me to do?

Because what I find sometimes too, is if we're living in such a way and almost like saying yes to everything and carrying more than we're supposed to carry, then God can't carry the things that he's supposed to carry in their life.

29:31

Yeah, you know, speaking with.

Ministry of Absence?

Yeah, absolutely.

There's just, there's things that God can do in the margins.

Yeah, that if we meddle with, it becomes a problem.

And it's also something that we're carrying that we shouldn't be carrying.

Yes.

Like, I think a great example is I used to be on this like board for one of our kids schools and it was great to get everything going and started and helping with that.

29:57

But at the same time, it's not what I'm supposed to do for the rest of my life.

And so it was, you know, it was a hard no, but it was like, Oh my gosh, I think, I think if I say no to this right now, then I think other things can happen in my life in a more peaceful way.

And I think a lot of times we think that God wants us to be, you know, rung out for the Kingdom and like to me, the word abundance, you know, part of that word is full and like full of life.

30:24

And if we're like dropped out, rung out Christians, then of course no one's going to want to follow Jesus.

Like we look more like the hustle culture than we do the Kingdom culture.

I think we've what we discussed was like, hey, we we've got to do a better job of capturing every opportunity and saying, like, hey, God, is this what you have for me To the best of the ability, can we do that with every opportunity?

30:47

Absolutely not.

But start with a few things.

Start with five things this week and just say, hey, got it.

What do you want me to do about this?

Someone reached out to me about something the other day through text.

And I'm just like, I don't know how I'm gonna figure this out in my schedule and make this happen for them.

31:07

And so I was literally on the treadmill.

And you you know, I like to walk backwards on the treadmill.

Which is my favorite?

He's serious.

He likes to walk backwards on the I walk forward and then I walk backwards, yeah, and I'm walking backwards.

What is the spiritual significance of The Walking backwards?

It's not spiritual, it's more for the knees.

31:24

I was.

Just giving you a second to make out something.

It's it's more about the aging process than anything.

But I was walking backwards and like, God, what I'm gonna do about this?

And immediately he hit me with the answer and I was like, my gosh, I need to call this person and connect this person with that person.

31:39

And it ended up being the best thing for both of them.

So good.

And so I think the more we pray about things and the less we Google things, come on or do whatever we do, I think we're gonna see fruit from that.

That's good.

I wanna give a tiny caveat here.

31:55

I don't disagree with any of that.

Obviously.

And I'm always gonna say the like, very weird outlier thing and you're going to always bring it back to.

No, I think that's important.

I mean, in my next book, which I'm going to talk about on the podcast in in coming weeks, I actually have a whole section about how to say no scripts for women that are loving and kind.

32:18

Because what I know is that I think that even like Internet culture, right, And like Instagram memes and TikTok would say like no is a complete sentence.

And I would say yeah, and it's a rude one.

If someone says, would you like to have coffee?

And you say no thanks, like that's not actually loving, then it's not actually applicable for most of us.

32:38

Yeah.

So we need godly, compassionate, hospitable ways to say no.

Yes.

And so I actually have a list of those scripts in my next book because that's what I've needed in my life.

But the tiny caveat I want to give here on the back end of this saying no conversation is you are a person who is actually very blessed and delighted to not be included.

33:00

Sometimes, yeah.

You like things happening without needing you.

Oh my gosh, that means health.

Yeah I that that is grief for me and I it is and but so I'm just saying that for the women who would say who would be really honest to say I wanna say no.

33:17

I know I need to say no.

And then I'm gonna see it happen on social media and I'm gonna be grieved.

And I wanna say you are, yeah, you are.

You're gonna be sad you weren't there and.

You're going to get more used to that feeling.

And then you're going to be so blessed by being so present in the spaces you're supposed to be in, and you're going to see other people thriving and growing and stepping into and leading the spaces where you had to say no.

33:46

And you're going to be so blessed by them and for them, and so blessed by the fact that you're not as stressed and tired in your yes.

That it's going to get easier.

But I want to say both sides.

Because some people say a faithful, brave no to the things that are not for them.

34:02

And they feel released.

Yeah.

And they feel healthy.

And some of us feel grief.

And I feel real grief, Yeah.

And I have to anticipate that and know that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Yes.

Saying no and feeling grieved about not being there doesn't mean I was supposed to be there.

34:17

Yeah.

And the hard part about a no is you're probably going to feel the grief from the immediate post that someone has on Instagram.

Yeah, but if you can hang in there, you're gonna see a lifetime of fruit on the back end.

Yeah, it's just gonna take a little longer.

34:33

Yeah.

And so, like, a great example is like parent kid relationships.

Like, if, you know, as someone who pastors a church, I have two options.

I can say yes to every ministry, ministry thing and sacrifice the relationship that I have with my kids.

Yeah.

And I'm going to see the fruit of that in five to 10 years.

34:51

Or I can come out with some, you know, as you said, some brave nose and just say, hey, I can't do this right now, but it's also going to take five years for me to see that fruit in their life, right?

Lord willing, you know as.

I feel sounds great as they get older but it you know the whatever the opportunity is is is I'm gonna feel the grief of that in the moment no matter what.

35:11

Yeah and I'm gonna see the post online that's like ohh my gosh you know we're here you know I missed out but at the same time you know missing out then is because I'm showing up for someone in the future is is is a great trade off.

It's just hard because you're seeing the the consequences of 1 immediately and then the fruit of another delayed.

35:32

That's good.

Okay.

Rapid fire, Okay.

What are some things, literally, that you and I are saying no to this fall, man?

I actually have a list.

You know, I had to make a list.

I feel like for me the interesting.

So going back to the kids school discussion is like early on when they were in elementary school.

35:52

It's like, my gosh, we've got to buy the tissue paper and we've got to make sure we get the right name, brand Kleenex or you're buying every little thing and then you realize like, okay, that's not an option.

That's not sustainable.

We can figure out how to do this in a sustainable way for us.

36:07

Well, now the kids have flipped the script and I feel like I'm in a hostage situation sometimes and they're making demands.

I am loving this line of communication.

Keep going, please.

It's so it's like, you know, every kid has these, you know, demands that they're making of us.

36:24

And some of them are incredible.

We need to meet those demands.

And I'm using demands in a funny way, but I think some of the things I've just been like, hey, I appreciate that you want that is probably a want, not a need.

And so I'm forming a a list of those things with the kids of my okay.

36:41

That is not even anywhere on my radar, which is why parenting together is really helpful.

I would buy our kids anything.

Yeah, if they put it names on cart, I might just done sure it's whatever.

That's not what that's for.

It's not.

Just because it goes in the cart doesn't mean that it should come out of the car.

36:58

Into our porch.

So I I feel like that is is something that I'm.

I'm trying to figure out.

Yeah.

I think, you know in light of going into a a book season like I have never done this before.

Yeah.

But I, you know, like you, I mean you have a job outside of a book like you run a business.

37:17

Yeah.

Like you run a company.

And so for me, I lead a church.

And so I'm trying to figure out, OK, this is what the norm is and this is what other people do, but what can I do?

Yeah, I feel like I have a list of a few things that I'm thinking through.

37:32

But one of the things I love about this idea or, you know, just thinking through these thoughts, is like Jesus always tells us to bring us what he has, and then he multiplies it.

Like that's that's how the Kingdom works.

And so I think for me, it gets me excited to say, hey, this is this is what I've got.

37:51

This is what I have, and I can't wait to see how you multiply it because we're always going to be limited on what we can do and provide other people in this world and the things that God's given us do.

We're always going to have a limitation with that.

But I feel like it should be, you know, as a pastor, we love this.

38:08

As you know, your limitation should be your liberation, and it should really free you up.

And so I feel like I'm feeling free in a few areas.

So I've got a couple things.

What about you?

Mine are really like tactical, you know?

For example, something that was part of my life last year was Jess's Gym.

38:25

Yes, was the homemade gym that I hosted for.

I had told any friends that wanted to come.

Sometimes we'd have up to 15 people.

I'd set up all the equipment.

I'd write a workout for us, you know, I made homemade lavender towels for my friends.

It was this really life giving spot.

38:42

And I realized this year, I can't do Jess's Gym anymore.

You can't.

There was grief for me in that, yeah.

The minor examples like that, yeah, which is in a a great, incredible example.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of some of my other ones.

I mean, I made a lot of decisions to streamline my life going into seminary.

38:59

So that's a I was gonna ask if you've have you.

I haven't talked about something.

Yeah, on the podcast.

I'm starting seminary this fall.

Just going back to school, folks.

It's a lifelong dream, really.

Truly.

I mean, as long as I've known you.

I wanted to go to seminary.

So over 20 years, I'm really excited.

I'm getting my Masters of Biblical Studies.

39:16

At least incredible.

And I am so pumped, but to add that in, I had to take a lot of things off my plate.

I mean, I told you a big thing that's going off my plate is that I'm not watching Netflix anymore unless I'm watching a show with you.

You watching Hulu?

39:32

I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding.

That's awesome.

I'm not watching Netflix or Hulu or Max.

Or what about Prime?

I'm just kidding.

No, not prime either.

MY1 caveat is probably gonna be West Wing in the shower.

Which what is West Wing on right now?

39:48

Max Okay.

But also, do people know that you watch TV on your phone in the shower?

I did write about it a lot in my next book, which obviously isn't out yet, but I unpack it.

But it is one of my healthiest rhythms in my life.

You know this.

I don't understand it.

Doesn't understand it.

We have a little nook where I put my phone and keeps it safe.

40:07

Apparently that's why we got the that's why we put the niche in our shower.

Nick didn't know he thought it was for a razor.

It's not.

It's for my phone.

And I watch West Wing in there and I decompress and my justification about West Wing.

Sometimes I switch out for Grey's Anatomy, but I'm kind of over Grey's Anatomy.

40:23

It's almost always West Wing now.

Is that I like watching people do things that are bigger than them.

Yes, it relaxes me.

Also, it is your leadership book.

I've.

It is how it's like I want to be Jet Bart.

Every leadership book that people read, it's like, I'll just watch West Wing and I'll pick it up.

40:43

I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, I do need everybody to watch it.

Yeah.

OK.

You got to get through the first few.

Though it is not for the faint of art.

It's not you got.

The first few were boring.

You did.

You did.

I never, I never fall asleep watching TV.

And I fell asleep.

I asked you to watch it for years.

Yep.

You would only watch the first few episodes and you were super bored.

41:00

But then you got through and you got it hooked.

Yeah, yeah, everybody should watch it.

Any other things we're saying no to this fall?

I'm sure there are a list of things, but but here's the beautiful things about the list is it it always needs to be evolving.

Like, yeah, you, what works this week might not work next week, and what didn't work next week might work the week after.

41:20

And I feel like, you know, applying grace to ourselves is incredible to to.

To have in this process of just like, all right I'm just going to be gracious with myself.

I'm going to be kind with myself.

And and I think just reflecting the Father's heart to us.

41:36

I mean going back to how you were talking last night is like man like no one's disappointed in you.

The father is not disappointing you.

I am not disappointed in you.

Nobody's disappointed in you.

And yes, like Jesus did disappoint people but I think sometimes we think God is disappointed with us.

41:51

And I I don't know.

I just feel like if we would apply the same.

Or an ounce of the same grace that God has for us.

I think we would be in a better place this fall.

Come on.

And even, like, unpacking that theologically, there are areas of sin in our life where we need to confess, interpent, so that we can experience God's grace.

42:10

Yeah, and shift and change.

But the good news of the gospel, what Scripture tells us is that when God looks at us, he sees his Son and so he is not tapping his foot saying when isn't it gonna get it together.

When it's just gonna figure this out.

When is Jess finally gonna not be so stressed in the fall.

42:27

He chose us before we chose him.

Seeing all of us and our weaknesses fully.

Yeah.

And still move toward us and grace.

Yeah.

Praise God.

OK.

I want to end on this.

OK Because we've said so many great things about boundaries and no and healthy.

I want to say what are we saying yes to This is the only fun part about me.

42:45

I would say, you know, because I like to make sure like.

Only fun part.

I don't know.

I think a little bit.

I'd like to make sure that our life has spice.

I like to make sure that we're experiencing joy and abundance, which is obviously why even this podcast we're centering on living fully awake.

So I wanna like, literally Spitfire.

43:01

I'm gonna say a thing.

You say a thing.

Even if we need a pause, it's OK.

OK.

So for me, I'm saying yes to journaling.

Journaling.

OK.

Yeah, like physical.

Yeah.

I went back to a physical journal in the morning and I've told you it's giving me so much life, OK?

It's my happiest thing I do every morning.

43:18

Yeah.

So this is the part where I'm like, my gosh, do you ever answer for you?

Yeah, you are saying yes to walking backwards on the treadmill.

I.

Do say yes to walking backwards on the treadmill.

I think I've said yes to like a more gracious entry into my work day.

43:34

Yeah, I think like I've had my priorities in the morning and then.

You know, work is is always there and that you know, that's coming from someone who literally, you know, ministry was my heart for years to do.

And I and I did not get to do it for a very, very long time.

43:51

And so I had to report to a desk and sit in a cubicle and it was hard.

But I think one of the blessings about the season of work that I have is I don't have to show up to an office at a certain time every day.

But also, I'm always working.

It feels like.

44:07

I feel like I'm always on the clock as like an entrepreneur or a pastor.

It's like I feel like I'm always approachable, always on the clock, always reachable to an extent.

And so I feel like I've said yes to a gracious entry into the work day because I know that sometimes my work day does not end like everyone else's.

44:24

So yeah, I'm saying yes to cold plunging.

You have said yes, and I meant to.

I said yes and I meant to.

Cold plunging.

I'm gonna talk about it on an upcoming podcast.

As you should, but I'm obsessed.

You are obsessed.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

44:41

This is like a yes.

No is.

I'm saying yes to learning, but I'm saying no to like a rigorous book reading, yeah.

Yeah, like I'm saying yes to I wanna learn Portuguese.

Yes, I've started in high school and college and I would say you're fluent.

44:59

I'm not fluent, but I want to revisit Portuguese and so I have some learning things that I'm saying yes to just because I think it's gonna be great.

Anything else?

I can't think of anything else.

I'm sure there's a well keep evolving this.

Yes, to a very impractical car that's been fun.

45:17

We call it our adventure car.

Yeah, The Duchess.

The Duchess, we named her.

When we pick up people and take them out, we say, hey, do you want adventure or do you want reliability?

Because, and the Duchess is so old that we sometimes don't know if she's gonna start.

She did not start.

She didn't start yesterday.

But that's OK.

45:35

But she's.

She's adventure.

Yeah, that's good.

I love it.

So good.

OK, one last thing.

I wanna give another spoiler alert to an episode that you and I are doing this fall that I'm so excited about.

I had this idea while we were on our anniversary vacation this year and we are gonna do an episode about mansplaining and nagging because do you remember we were on vacation?

46:00

I think I was in the shower and I was like, babe, I've had a great idea.

Where were we?

I think we're in Portugal, OK?

And I was like, I've had a great idea.

I feel like we're both the same in.

This is like when we get out and get away the ideas, the ideas flow.

Which is beautiful, but also hilarious.

46:16

I encounter a lot of mansplaining.

I have had encountered a lot of mansplaining in all the fields, in ministry and in publishing and etc.

And it is a deep grief for me.

And in contrast I've noticed you literally never mansplain.

46:32

And so I was in the shower thinking what makes Nick an anti mansplainer?

But I was like we should do a whole episode on this.

But then I was like, wait, hold on.

We can't just, like, target men.

Because I would say the female version of mansplaining is nagging.

46:47

Yeah.

And it is something that a lot of men would say.

A lot of women do.

Yeah.

And I.

So I got out of the shower and I said, would you say, babe, that I'm not a Nagger?

Because I felt in myself that I used to be a Nagger.

OK.

But God helped me with it.

OK.

So we're going to talk about that.

Yeah.

All right, I can't wait.

47:04

That's a big mountain to climb.

Oh, I think it's going to be so fun.

And I think because what I think is the heart behind both mansplaining and nagging is that you want to help people.

Yes, you do.

Oh yeah.

47:15

So we're going to take it from that gentle approach.

We know you want to help people.

Yeah.

But no, I just mean don't like that.

Don't do it like.

I don't like.

What?

Don't do it.

OK, Got it.

If you see the show notes, you're going to see a link to get the condensed version of the Fallen to Freedom guide.

47:33

It's 3 pages.

It's not going to stress you out.

It's going to bless you.

We are going to conquer this together.

This is going to be a different fall in the name of Jesus.

Yeah, for the women of God.

It's gonna be a good fall.

It's gonna be a good fall.

Yeah.

Hey, will you pray to send us out?

Wow, you don't have to.

47:49

No, I can't.

It's, you know, it's the joke that I always say when apparently, like I go to, they always ask pastors to pray.

Pastors to pray, Yeah, you're a good prayer.

I just want people to know that you can't be good at praying.

You are a great prayer.

You can't be.

We can't be good or bad at it.

48:05

It's just talking to God.

You excel at praying.

I mean, in the Bible, people who are good at praying are Pharisees, you say.

Don't be like the Pharisees who go around reciting poets.

You, I'm talking.

About in your closet.

I see you in the closet.

You do the thing.

All right.

Well, that'll be another podcast, you.

48:21

I'm blessed by your encouragement.

That'll be another podcast.

Okay, Father, I thank you for the ability to have options in life.

I think a lot of the stressors that we feel are options and and God, we're grateful for that.

Father, we just pray for the fall.

48:36

I pray that you would give people.

A Spirit of resiliency in the In the face of resistance, Father, I pray that you would give people just a persistent spirit, knowing that you have put perseverance in us.

And then through your Son, Jesus and God, I just pray on the hard weeks and on the hard days that people would be just as gracious as you would be with us.

48:59

That you they would just catch a glimpse of how you see us, that they would be patient and that they would be kind and gracious with themselves.

Father, we are grateful for all the fruit and the harvest that's to come in the fall, and we just thank you in advance.

In Jesus name, Amen.

49:16

Amen.

So as I was praying, I was thinking about this one proverb that we love.

Yeah, it's the Proverbs 14 four.

I think that's it.

It's like where And this is the Nick and Jess translation.

But there's there's some good translations out there, but it's where there are many ox and there's much poop.

49:33

And so it's essentially just the idea that when you've been blessed with promises, sometimes there's there's poop in the stable.

So, yeah, grab a shovel and get grateful.

Let's go.

Yeah.

Amen.

Amen.