Episode 14: You Are More Than You’ve Been Told, an interview with Hosanna Wong

Welcome to our podcast– The Jess Connolly Podcast!

This podcast is for you. It’s not my podcast, it’s ours. It’s for people who crave light-hearted conversations and deeply spiritual truths. It’s for those of us who are busy, tired, waiting, growing, dreaming, working, or praying about what’s next.

On this episode, Jess sits down with her close friend, Hosanna Wong to discuss her latest book, ‘You Are More Than You’ve Been Told’ . ⁠Hosanna⁠ is an international speaker, best-selling author, and spoken word artist. This episode is for you if you’ve been told lies about yourself that have trapped you in the wrong patterns of thinking and in the wrong patterns of living. We hope this episode serves to remind you that you are more than you’ve been told. Join Jess’ ⁠Leaders are Learners⁠ and dive into this book together with us and you can even call in and share your own thoughts on the podcast! 

Let’s Go.

Don’t Miss:

⁠⁠Leaders are Learners!⁠⁠ Join Jess’ book club ⁠here⁠, where together you’ll read transformative books together!

We’re so excited to partner with Compassion International and to invite you into the partnership as well. It’s not just changing the lives of children; it’s changing entire families. Whole communities. When you sponsor a child, you ensure access to quality education, medical checkups, healthy food, clean water and most importantly, the love of Jesus. 

To sponsor a child today you can text JESS at 83393 or go to ⁠Compassion.com/JESS⁠. Let’s go.

Episode Transcript:

Hey friends, I'm Jess Connolly.

I'm an author, a coach, a Bible teacher and a local church leader.

And I love talking to real people who know what it means to have full lives but also want to walk in abundance.

This podcast is for you.

It's not my podcast, it's ours.

0:19

It's for people who crave light hearted conversations and deeply spiritual truth.

It's for people who are busy, tired, waiting, growing, dreaming, working, or praying about what's next.

Wherever you're listening from, if it's quiet, mundane or busy, I am praying for you.

0:39

And I'm so glad you're here.

Let's go.

I think that a sign of health is when we can acknowledge our weaknesses and not live into them.

So every woman we know struggles with comparison.

0:57

This is not what this episode's about.

But this book was painful for me to read it parts because you're such a good writer.

But here's what happened.

I just confessed it and repented.

I would just read it.

1:16

I do see how tears in my eyes.

I would just read it and say okay.

I'm pretty sure she does love God more than me and I am pretty sure she is the best writer I know.

I think you may be one of the best writers I've ever read.

Jazz.

I'm gonna cry too.

1:31

Stop.

This entire podcast is just gonna be people listening to two friends weep at each other.

Just being honest, I think it makes sense because you're a poet.

Like this is what you do.

This is what you do.

You communicate with words.

You know, I feel this way about you.

I You give me all the John the Baptist vibes and it's a little bit like if John the Baptist wrote us a book right now.

1:53

My goodness, that's how it feels.

Are we allowed to say things like that?

I don't know.

God, come get me if I'm wrong.

Lord, help my friend Jess.

It's such a good book.

One of my favorite authors ever.

That means so much to me.

Thank you.

It's like it's a beautiful meal that you can just enjoy like word after word, page after page.

2:15

But it's not just well written, it's actually life changing.

And let me just keep confessing.

And why not?

I think that as an author, I'm just being totally vulnerable and everybody who's listening, you can apply this to your own field.

If I read a really good book that's actually really well written that actually changes my mind about something, I can.

2:36

Then if I want to, I can feel so prideful and not want to confess that and talk to God about that, that I can then assume like, well, I'm sure they don't live it out.

Or, like, I'm sure they're not a nice person, or I'm sure they got this ghost written.

And that would be messy, but that's what our minds and hearts do.

2:52

We want to discount people's gifting when it intimidates us or when it calls us up to more.

But the problem is with you.

I can't do that because I actually know that on top of that, you just actually really love people well, and you love the church and you live that out.

3:07

And so that's why I'm thankful that I get to confess that I read this and I think I can't believe I get to be friends with her.

I can't believe I get to know you.

I can't believe I get to do Ministry at the same time with you.

I can't believe we got to talk about our books together before they came out into the world.

3:23

I quote you twice in this book.

It's too much for me.

It's literally too much for.

Me.

Were those the best written parts?

No, they weren't.

But I don't even really know what to say.

The best written part is because like when you start reading, I'm not going to tell you guys what the first part is about.

3:42

And I was actually trying to remember the name of the Hill this morning.

Bernal Heights, OK, Bernal Heights.

When you start talking about Bernal Heights in the beginning of the book, I think the reader, especially a reader who knows about writing, I'm going to get off this subject and get into the book in a second, by the way.

But I think a reader who knows about writing is like, well, wow, she probably just power packed it at the beginning.

4:01

So I'm crying like on page 2.

But like, I'll be better.

You're not, you're not going to be better.

You're not going to be better about Bernal Heights.

You're going to be crying about it at the end.

So just just grab some tissues and get ready for life change.

It's a really, really, really good book, but I feel that way too.

4:17

I was just telling you you're the only friend of mine now at the time of recording this.

After this will be a different story, but you're my only friend who's seen my next book cover.

And it's amazing.

That's not true, Jamie.

Ivy too.

Yeah, I said it to both of you guys and we love it.

And we can't wait.

And more the content in the book, which also we've talked about, Yeah, as you've been writing and we're gonna talk about I.

4:36

Think something we also not on the subject but also in this friend conversation.

One thing that I think like.

Share in common and why we love each other And our mission so much early on, even before we were close friends, was we are trying to dig into biblical truths and how to practically apply them today.

4:53

Yeah, that is.

That's why we talk about our book topics so much to each other.

Because we trust each other.

Because we know we love God, we love the church.

Yeah, but there is nothing new under the sun.

As in there's no biblical truths that are new, right.

And yet there is a new way to unpack them, to make them practical to people's real lives.

5:08

Yeah, I feel like you and I have.

Been witness to a culture growing up that maybe could say a lot of good biblical truths and maybe we needed help unpacking them in our real everyday lives.

And so I know that's something we're both really passionate about, which I know is in your next book.

5:24

And what I really hope to put in this book, how can this be really practical for everyday people?

Because biblical truth, not applied, is just an idea.

Yeah.

Theology that's not lived out.

That's not real.

And that's not Jesus.

Right.

You did it.

That's what it is.

5:40

It's the most practical book I've ever read that is so still spiritually and deeply transformative.

I would paraphrase it.

I don't know if this is the language you would use.

I would say it is a book that will teach you to walk with God.

Yeah.

And like, maybe undo how you haven't been.

5:56

Yeah.

And invite you to pay attention to that.

So I want, I want to hear it in your own words.

I've told you and the gals on The Who listen to the podcast.

They know we are reading this book for the Leaders or learners book club.

I'm so honored because we wanna be women who keep growing, who keep stepping into the more God House for us.

6:12

And we know that a lot of that is through reading.

You and I obviously love books.

I can't get enough of books.

It's this long form beautiful way to give ourselves space to change our minds and change our lives, which this book does.

But because we're doing the book club, I don't want you to give away a ton of the content of the book in this podcast.

6:29

I've asked you please not to.

And I want women to read it fresh for themselves, in their rooms, in their beds, at their coffee shops, with their friends.

So I'm going to ask you some counter questions a little to the left.

My gosh.

So the very first question I want to ask.

The book is called You Are More Than You've Been Told.

6:47

It's also a beautiful cover.

I've decided to match it today.

I love it.

You're so sweet, so pretty.

To match.

Nick Connolly's book cover, I know, which I love.

Have the same idea.

We'll take a picture of you holding his necks perfect.

Perfect.

I love it.

You're also one of my first friends to see this cover.

7:03

Oh, an event together.

Yes, I remember and I remember and I lost my mind.

I love it.

Cover sisters?

OK, so pretty.

It's such a big deal.

You're more than you've been told.

Yeah, OK.

Before I ask you my to the left question, I have a question for you.

7:19

Is this one for women and men?

It is.

It is.

Yeah, a lot of the teachings in it came out of me teaching on Sundays to both women and men.

Yeah.

So the teachings came from a place of real people in their real everyday lives, a lot of them either fresh to the church the past couple years or.

7:38

Having a fresh encounter with God now, after a global pandemic.

Now, after all the routines have changed, they've already chosen Jesus maybe for decades.

But they they want a fresh encounter, some fresh rhythms, a fresh wind, a fresh fire.

So it was already written to men and women in those seasons.

7:56

And so the book is probably the most out of anything I've ever written.

The most.

To both.

OK, I was wondering.

I read it and thought, this is absolutely for men too.

There's nothing in it that discludes them, it's only inviting for them.

But I was wondering if your passbooks were.

8:12

I think that there's a there's a part of me that naturally goes there because I teach so much on Sundays, as well as prisons that are sometimes men's prisons or women's prisons.

So because of who I'm talking to, I naturally address.

Both, if that makes sense.

People that I've spoken to have always been both because I'm a chick, yeah, a mean chick, right?

8:31

But I just think that more than any book.

I think all of them have both.

But I think this book, more than any book, has things for both.

I love it.

I appreciate that, friends.

I am so excited that here on the Just Connolly Podcast we are partnering with Compassion International and we want to invite you into that partnership as well.

8:56

I believe in Compassion's mission to release children from poverty in Jesus name, and I am so grateful to say that I've seen the impact myself.

One of my favorite things to do every couple of months is to get a letter from my sponsored child.

And it's just a joy to hear her life, to hear how God is moving in her life.

9:15

And I'm so grateful to invite you into this as well.

We're not just changing the lives of children when we partner with compassion, we're changing entire families.

We're getting to partner with God as he does that.

Whole communities, the local church, all of it.

9:31

When you sponsor a child through compassion, you are ensuring access to quality education, medical checkups, healthy food, clean water, and most importantly, discipleship.

They get to hear about the love of Jesus from a local church in their community.

9:47

I hope you'll join me in sponsoring a child through compassion.

All you have to do right now is pull out your phone, open up a text and text the word Jess Jess 283393.

You will immediately actually get back a text with a picture of a child who is waiting for sponsorship and a link to sponsor that child.

10:09

Again, pull out your phone, open a text and type the word Jess to the phone number 83393.

You can also go to compassion.com Jess to choose a specific boy or girl to sponsor.

10:25

When you sponsor a child, Compassion is actually going to send you a copy of my book.

You are the girl for the job as a thank you for investing in the life of this child.

This is a win, win, win.

You get to help a specific child, see a community, a family, and a local church.

10:43

Carry out the mission of Jesus and you get a copy of you or the girl for the job if you already have one.

Give it to a friend.

Thank you for joining me and sponsoring a child through Compassion.

I'm so glad we get to do this together.

So for real, my first question you are more than you've been told.

11:00

What have they been told?

Men and women?

What have we been told?

We have been told a lot of lies throughout our lives.

We've been told that we're unwanted, unseen, unworthy.

11:16

Not enough that we have to.

Work harder, hustle more, produce more to prove our value that we need to change who we are to look like other people or shape shift ourselves to fit into some kind of mould.

We've been told that what we really think, or what we real, really feel or our real questions.

11:35

Don't say them out loud.

They're not validated or you're crazy or weird and we have been told our whole lives.

Lies about ourselves that have trapped us in the wrong patterns of thinking and the wrong patterns of living.

And many of us have started to see ourselves through the broken lens of other people.

11:57

Other people spoke to us through their own broken lens, where we started to tell ourselves things out of our own broken lens, our own broken perception of ourselves or the world.

And some of these lies have acted as a ceiling over our lives.

Stopping us from knowing who we really are and living the free and full and healed lives where we're created to live.

12:21

An enemy of our soul knows this, yeah.

He knows that what you think about yourself determines how you live, so of course he has been feeding lies to you your whole life.

If you've ever struggled with knowing who you really are and how to live, you're not crazy.

12:42

You have been told lies your whole life and so that is one of the things that I want to set people free from is this thought that you're crazy or something's wrong with you.

No, you're not crazy.

You are in an age-old war.

12:58

There has been a battle for what you think about yourself happening your entire life.

OK, you tell a story in the book that I'm not going to tell the story on here because I want you guys to read the book.

You tell a story about a guy you were dating.

13:17

His dad was a pastor.

Oh my gosh, you read deep into the book.

That is like the last few chapters I that's where he messed with me.

Oh my gosh.

And it messed with me.

For you and off recording, I would like you to tell me that pastor's name.

13:34

I know you do.

I know you do.

I know you are ready to find the address and to get in your car.

I would like to number one from the.

Block.

Send a letter #2.

Make sure I never go to that church.

13:52

I had to stop.

My that's not sweet.

Excuse me if they invited me.

I would like to go, but then I would like to have a conversation where I say I'd like to talk about because everybody gets to repent, but I would like him to repent anyways.

I'm not going to tell you guys that story, but I think where you are so generous in this book is that's one of 20 over stories you told about words that were spoken over you.

14:19

What I find is really difficult for me is the subtle ones.

What word of encouragement do you have for the men and women listening to this?

Who would say like, I'm just scared.

I don't want to.

14:35

Yeah, me too.

You're not crazy, you.

Know when I wrote that chapter in those stories, That's when I knew that this message would be a message I preached for the rest of my life.

It was when I knew that this was a book I was ready to write today that I wasn't ready to write seven years ago.

14:54

Not just that I was ready to talk about it with a new lens and a new authority, but the other people in my life.

Because you have to get permission from the other people in your life that are mentioned in your books.

Like the fact that my family was also ready for me to share these stories.

15:10

I knew that I was ready for this book on our identity to come out.

And here's the thing when I think initially about.

You are more than you've been told.

Don't listen to other people's opinions about you.

My first instinct would be to think about the mean things people said to me this month.

15:26

The mean things people are commenting on my Instagram reels, the hurtful things a Co worker said to me.

You know I can think about.

I'm more than I've been told from all these people today.

And that is true, yeah.

You are.

But I find more often than not that the reason why I struggle sometimes to know who I am and live as who I am, and to not overthink the things I feel called to do and to not be held back by fears of the future.

15:52

People's opinions about me are actually because of things I was told growing up, that in my formative years there was something someone said that they shouldn't have said, or something someone did that they shouldn't have done, or something they didn't say, that I really needed to hear.

And there was something in my formative years.

16:09

That really trapped me in a pattern of thinking and a pattern of living.

And so when I really came to think, what about those of us who have felt like, I don't know if I've ever really known who I am my whole life?

Yeah, I really had to start an exercise of going back to some of the most painful memories of my past and things people said growing up, something someone said to me when I was 13916 and really think about who said it.

16:38

Why did they say it?

What did they say?

And what authority did they have to define me?

And now that I know Jesus, and now that I know the word of God, what do I know God would have said to me in that moment.

What would Jesus have said to me in that moment?

16:53

What would Jesus face have looked like as he looked at me?

As I was crying, As I was afraid, as I was confused as the leaders I thought were trustworthy, turned out not to be trustworthy at all, as the people who should have loved me weren't loving me well at all.

Now, what can I get from Jesus that nobody else was able to give me?

17:13

But for so much of my life?

I've been asking Jesus to heal me now.

And I didn't realize that Jesus also wanted to heal me then and bring healing and truth to those moments then.

To help me start to see myself through a new lens, realizing that I'm not just loved today, but I have been deeply loved all along.

17:35

So to any man or woman that's thinking, man, I've.

I think I have hurt in my past.

I think some of us might want to ignore that because frankly, that'd just be easier.

It'd be easier to ignore some of the wounds from our past.

It'd be difficult to go back to memories we've tried so hard to leave behind us.

17:51

And for many of us, man, we have a lot of responsibilities now for other people.

You know, we care so much about our families and our friends and our churches and our ministries and our kids and our spouses.

We want to take care of other people.

So much.

18:06

And that's a good thing.

But sometimes we put our own healing on the back burner.

Sometimes we put our, you know, our own self reflection or what We need to be healed on the back burner because we're busy caring for so many other people.

And this is what I've discovered.

18:22

If we do not allow God to come in and transform our hurt, we will transfer our hurt and truly the best thing.

The kindest thing you can do for your friends and family and ministries is for you to get well yourself.

18:38

Yeah, for you to let God heal you.

So for me, I went back to some of these painful places and labels that I was told when I was young.

And even when I wrote it, I thought, and these are not the craziest stories.

These aren't the stories of the greatest loss in my life.

18:54

This isn't the story of my dad dying when I was 18, right?

This isn't the story of our warehouse burning down and losing all our resources years ago.

This isn't the stories that you would think would be the climax of the movie.

Yeah, because they're not what you might define as the greatest tragedy, but the subtle ways that people that I trusted, people that should have been trustworthy, took things from me as a kid.

19:18

It's like if you've ever had that kind of loss as a child, if you were ever told things you weren't supposed to hear or had things taken from you that you weren't supposed to have taken from you, you might relate to these chapters.

I did not know if these stories would be relatable to people because they're so subtle.

19:34

But the wound was very deep and has really formed me for a lot of my adult life.

Speaking truth to those lies has brought me into a new freedom now in my life.

That I never knew was possible.

So good.

19:50

Can I tell you a story that I've never told that this book brought up for me?

It's not so salacious.

So I think you know this about me.

I think people who listen to the podcast may have picked up on it.

20:06

A deep insecurity for me that is in the process of being healed is that I feel insecure about my intellect.

I feel vulnerable mentally.

And God is healing me.

Anyhow, reading this book and like reading your stories, I wanted to apply it.

20:24

So I was like, I've never asked where this came from.

I've never asked where this came from.

And I think the subtle truth is it came from.

I listened to other people being told they were very smart and no one told me I was stupid, but no one told me I was very smart, you know?

20:43

But that was like subtle.

That was just in between the cracks.

But the first time I ever really tried with my mind was in college, and I had been a really poor student in high school.

I'd barely gotten into college.

It was a miracle.

And I started to realize that I liked learning and I liked performing is too is too sinful.

21:04

I just like trying.

I think I like trying.

And I was a religious studies major and I I wrote my senior thesis on biblical interpretation and different forms of biblical interpretation.

And I had studied 3 main forms of biblical interpretation under three different professors while in college.

21:26

And I thought they were all geniuses.

I just thought they were so smart.

All three saw the different the Bible really differently.

And I had to pick 3 professors to like defend my senior thesis too.

And so I picked the three of them and I wrote.

21:42

I worked so hard on this thesis and Nick and I worked on our thesis as the side, side by side.

And he I noticed the whole time when we laugh about it still now, like he just didn't have to work as hard as I did.

I had been an English, English major, knew I was going to write books, but his was just flowing and mine was like, I was wrestling it out.

22:03

But by the end, I was like, I've gone somewhere on this and essentially I wrote the paper saying I really appreciate all three of these interpretations, and I think we need all three of them.

And I got AB.

And at my presentation meeting, all three professors were really mad at me because I hadn't agreed with them, because I had sat under their teaching, really just some of the wisest, coolest men.

22:33

Like, I don't know that any of them love Jesus the way I love Jesus, 'cause it was a secular university.

But you know, one read the Bible like just his literature, and one was Greek Orthodox.

And like the the honor he held for scripture was so interesting and beautiful to me.

And one is like, probably not even a practicing believer, but he just, he did just have all this, like mystery and Gnosticism in him.

22:55

And anyways, all three were mad at me.

I remember their faces being mad because I had essentially said, like, I really appreciate what each of you has taught me and I got to be, and I laugh about it and I laugh about it.

Anyways, whatever reading you are more than you've been told.

23:13

What did you learn from that experience?

I think I learned that I'm coming back to make your point.

You just made that.

I think how we don't do that to people is by being tender enough to notice other people's tenderness when they can't express it.

23:32

I couldn't have gone into that meeting, like, with my eyes brimming with tears and stuff.

Like, I respect all three of you so much.

I'm just figuring this out.

Wow.

I couldn't have done that.

It wouldn't have been appropriate.

But they could have looked at me and been like, this is a girl on the brink of figuring out the word, and she really appreciated us.

23:53

I'm tender right now as we talk about this, and it's not because of the wound.

I actually feel so grateful that God reminded me of that story reading this book, and I was like, man, I took away from that, that I'm an idiot.

Thank you God, for undoing that.

But I'm tender because I think about how many times people come to me like that, and because I haven't dealt tenderly with my own self, I don't see it in them, and I am a part of the subtle naming in their life.

24:21

Yeah, that's really powerful.

That's really powerful to even think, Lord.

In what ways am I giving other people?

Yeah.

In what way am I these three professors?

Or in what way am I this pastor from my book?

Or in what ways have I, out of my brokenness and my broken lens, told somebody something that I did not have authority to say to them right, Or that I wasn't saying with the authority from the word of God or through God's lens of what they look like?

24:50

God.

Don't let me be a part of the problem.

Like, help me and what you said.

Help me hold other people's identities tenderly knowing I might not be.

I might not know what the Holy Spirit wants to say to them.

I might not know what God wants them to do or not do with their lives.

I think we will find there's a lot of people who are really quick to give advice to people who have no idea what someone might be called.

25:14

To do, yeah.

And one of the things I have found in my life as someone who feels sometimes like an advice magnet, like sometimes I feel like a lot of people want to tell me what do you think I should do with my life like.

I'm like, is there some sign on my forehead?

Am I wearing a shirt?

Why are so many people want to tell me you should be doing this.

25:30

You are this.

You are doing this.

So like constantly.

I feel like this is a battle.

You know the Lord, thank God, Lord, let me free from this.

Otherwise I would not know who I am or what to do all the time.

One of the tools that's helped me is saying.

OK, what if this person was half right and then going to God and saying all right, this person said this about me, said this about my rhythms, my boundaries, my ministry and Lord.

25:53

If this person is half right, what would they be right about?

What would they be wrong about?

It's not perfect math.

It's not 5050, but it helps me come to God and like, bring it to God and say, is there something true here?

No, there's not.

OK, then we move on.

Or was there something?

If my friend Jess told me this is, is there something that in this floor that you want me to repent of and change?

26:12

And let God tell me, you know, yes, this is something I think you need to change.

This is something you do better or no, you are intelligent.

No, you're going to be a voice that forms a generation.

Like, I'm imagining what God would have been saying to Jess Connolly.

You know what I mean?

26:27

Like, no.

Your words are going to reach 10s and thousands of people all the time.

You know, you're going to help women break free from body shame.

You're going to help women reclaim rest.

You're going to build God's church like.

There are things that though they might be wise, they were not fully informed about what God had over your life.

26:47

Well, what's interesting and to me connects me to all of this that I wanna say that that's helpful.

And another reason why I want everybody to read this book is because what you just said about being an advice magnet, if I had to immediately diagnose why, I think that that could be true for you, which is so interesting to me.

27:04

Because when I talk about you and I think you know this, and Emily, who's with me in this room, knows this, when I talk about you, I just think you're such an expert at most of what you do.

And I think most people who know you are so impressed by the level of insight.

Like, I think you literally might be one of the best writers I've ever read.

27:23

And I read a lot.

You know, I think I know.

I've told you.

I think you are one of the best communicators our generation will see, including also some other generations.

I think it's because you're humble that people want, think that's an invitation to lead you invitation.

27:46

I think that maybe I should really why nobody tries to give me advice, whatever.

You're doing is I'm the opposite end of the advice magnet.

I don't know.

That's not true.

28:02

No.

I think people try to give me advice, but I do think that's probably why they try to give you advice just because you're humble.

But this is what I want to tell you.

What's so interesting in you saying just a few minutes ago, I think I'm going to be talking about this message for the rest of my life.

This issue of identity and how it impacts everything is wild because you're the least self obsessed person I know I'll.

28:23

Receive it.

I just I I'm starting to think people just think I'm a mess.

No, Yeah.

I mean, we they.

Feel like they can't say something.

They do.

They see your humility.

But that's what people need to hear from this.

And This is why I wanted it to.

I really wanted your answer to be that yes, that you wrote it to men too.

28:39

Because we have received this false lie from the enemy, that if we think about ourselves and if we think about our identity, that that we're somehow not thinking about God, But the truth is instead we're we're thinking about all these other weird trappings of our identity.

We're living into it all the time.

28:55

And you provide this way forward, that's like actually, if you could just, like, stop driving, pull off on the side of the road and look at who you are and who he made you to be, you can actually love people better and love everybody else better and, you know, feel loved by him.

And that's what you live out.

29:11

You know, we're just so obsessed with, like, telling the world who we are.

And you never tell people who you are.

You just are.

It's empowering to me.

So the book is about the problem and the plan and the peace.

So I want to touch on the plan a little bit.

Again, I'm not going to tell you what the plan is because I need you to read the book, guys.

29:30

Do you hear me crying about it?

I need you to read it.

You do talk a little about the trellis.

If you've never heard the trellis and the vine analogy.

It's really powerful.

It's deeply scriptural.

I will let you say in your own words what the trellis is, because I don't want people to be confused, but I then want you to tell me what a life with without a sturdy trellis looks like.

29:53

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, a big thing I wanted to do with this book is not just say, like, here's the problem, we don't know who we are.

And the answer is your identities in Christ.

The end close the book.

I wanted to give a plan of, like, what does identity in Christ even mean?

I heard it a lot growing up.

30:09

You know, you got to find your identity in Christ.

And I would think yes.

Yeah.

Someone show me how You have to abide in Christ.

Yes, I'm in.

You don't got to sell me.

What does abide?

Mean?

How do I do this practically?

I know you don't want me to reveal too much of the book.

Yeah, I don't.

30:25

Can I explain what the trellis?

I think you should, because some people, if they're not familiar with that phrase, they're like, what word are they saying A?

Little bit.

I'll just give you a sneak preview to obey.

Thank you, queen of the podcast and not reveal every single thing that I do believe will transfer your life the way it has mine.

30:42

But just.

To give you a sneak preview and to clarify what this analogy is, when I was struggling to know who I am and how to live, I went to this verse where Jesus says abide in me and I will in you with me will bear.

Grapefruit.

Without me, you accomplish nothing.

30:57

This is where we get the term abide.

But I needed to know how to practically do that.

So I called one of my best friends who works in vineyards, and she's not even familiar with this scripture.

So I knew she would give me her agricultural answer, Yes, not the churchy answer she was raised with, and I asked her.

31:15

Is there anything else you can tell me about the relationship with branches and vines?

Or all branches need to do is to abide to remain to rest in the vine?

How do I do that?

And she doesn't have any context of the scripture and she goes well technically branches because I said to all branches need to do to live is just to be connected to the vine.

31:34

And she said, technically, yes, all branches need to live is to be connected to the vine, but they really need a trellis, a structure, a wooden.

A wooden set of sticks to help them be connected and stay connected to the vine.

31:50

That's how they will grow and flourish.

And I said, well, what if I don't care about flourishing?

What if I just want to live and survive?

Can I just be connected to the vine?

And she said, yes, all branches need to live is to be connected to the vine.

But without a trellis, without a structure, they will live constantly weighed down and they will fight an uphill battle.

32:12

They don't have to fight.

I mean, does anyone else feel way down today?

And I felt like that changed that scripture for me, and it changed my relationship with identity in Christ and abiding in Christ because I've already chosen Jesus.

The problem is not that I don't think God is real.

32:28

The problem is that I feel weighed down and exhausted carrying weights I was not meant to carry.

And so I started to realize that the way that I needed to reclaim my life was to reclaim my structure.

A way to reclaim my life was to reclaim my calendar and something that, you know to not go too much into the book, but to just say something that can encourage you where you are.

32:54

Something that has been very fraying for me.

Is this because some of us have followed Jesus for a long time and we've already had some form of a structure in our lives of being connected to Jesus and staying connected to Jesus, and that is good.

But here's the truth.

33:10

You might be in a season.

Of carrying new weights, Of carrying new responsibilities.

Responsibilities you didn't carry 10 years ago, Two months ago.

Two months ago, two days ago.

And it might not be that you're weighed down because you're struggling with your faith or you're weighed down because you're struggling with your, you know, concept of God.

33:33

It might be that you are having growth.

It might be that you are flourishing.

It might be that you are bearing new fruit and the structure that supported you 10 years ago will not support you today.

When you see trellises that support a vine that's starting to grow branches that are starting to grow, it's very thin.

33:54

And then when the branches start to grow more and there's more fruit, they have.

Stronger structures, thicker structures.

And then when it starts to flourish and becomes a vast vineyard, you see that this structure is very strict and large and strong and organized and deeply rooted.

You will see that these structures have to grow and to evolve.

34:12

So your relationship with Jesus, your structure doesn't need to look like it did 10 years ago, and it shouldn't.

You have a new life, new responsibilities, new growth, new fruit.

In the name of Jesus.

You might need to widen, strengthen, grow.

Your structure.

34:28

So I think for me it was me coming to a place of saying, you know what the truth is.

My relationship with Jesus doesn't have to look like anyone else's relationship with Jesus.

And my relationship with Jesus doesn't have to look like he did 10 years ago or how I hope it will look in two years when my rhythms are what I hope they will be.

34:43

My pace is what I hope it will be in a perfect calendar that's perfectly organized.

Jesus wants a real relationship with you today.

And so I think for me it was me coming to a place saying, all right, with the weights I'm carrying today.

With the fruit in my life today, with what God is calling me to today, I really need to reclaim my structure.

35:04

Yeah, the whole book is not about Sabbath and rest.

But there is some deeply wise words in the book about Sabbath and rest, and I'm going to describe our two books in comparison.

And I want you to tell me if this fits.

I mean, you're more than you've been told is about identity and about walking with Jesus.

35:24

Am I hitting close to what you would say it's about?

Yes, I would say this is a book on identity.

Uh huh.

But the answer is his walking.

Relationship with Jesus.

Thank you guys.

I'm glad.

I'm glad.

I I'm glad I got from it when I was.

I'm like, no.

Yes, you missed it.

You missed the whole book.

35:40

It's actually about heaven.

It's all an analogy.

It's actually a cooking book.

There's even in the book, if people are like having, even wanting, like any of you guys to get the book.

There's a beautiful diagram about the trellis.

35:57

It's so practical.

And Nick uses a phrase about our church that I would apply to you and the way you write.

He's like, I always want it to be simple and supernatural and it's both like beautiful.

Yeah, I feel like, I feel like even your diagram is like simple and supernatural.

36:12

It's gonna feel like a it's gonna feel.

I'm laughing at what I'm about to say next already.

It's gonna feel like a just a sweet, like, OK, I see it.

I'm in.

Let's do this.

I would say tired of being tired because at this point I will have talked about it on the podcast.

36:30

I would say it's a little bit like another.

Let's say you're in the army.

It's a little bit like another soldier, like getting into the foxhole with you and like pulling out all the maps and like, maybe his feet are like or his hands are like covered in dirt.

36:46

So like, as he smooths out the maps and points to where we're going next to, like, get out of the enemy's fire.

The map is getting dirty, but he's like, we're gonna get out of this.

Whereas I'm like, you know, more than you've been told.

Feels like, come walk with me, guys, let me tell you a story.

37:04

Let me tell you a story and let me show you this vineyard, and let me tell you some things about myself so you'll learn some things about yourself and.

Then when you're done, go to Jess and I'm in the hole and I'm like, all right over here.

We're going to have to duck and roll 2 miles.

37:24

You need both of those voices at different times in your life.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I agree that you need both voices.

And I would also say that I do think my book is is helping you answer and start to answer the question, how do I know who I am and live like it every single day?

37:40

And so there's the problem And then the second part is the plan and the third is the peace.

But I would say the next book to read is tired of being tired because I hit on rest.

And Sabbath.

And practical rest.

37:55

And practical Sabbath.

I mean, even one of the things I quote from Jess in that chapter isn't even from one of her books.

It is something she said to me in a conversation about practical rest in her life.

And if you've listened to this podcast or Jess at all, you know she's about this being very practical.

But I would think that this chapter for so many people on REST.

38:15

For many of them, it's the first time they've heard rest talked about this way.

This is what the feedback I've gotten about from this chapter.

It's the first time they've understood rest as a command.

Yeah.

Rest as a rhythm of Jesus.

Rest as something Jesus did differently throughout his life, in different seasons, with different friend groups.

Rest.

38:31

It was the first time many people saw rest.

It's an introduction to rest.

Yeah.

And I would say for people that have read this chapter that have said like this is so new, how practical this can be in my life?

There is more, and Jess wrote the rest.

38:46

Like this is a good introduction chapter, but Jess wrote the rest that you need to know today.

And this isn't red.

This is purple.

I I want you to know I didn't invite Jose on the podcast to say that, and I don't want her to combat what I'm about to say next.

39:01

But there's some of you that tired of being tired is going to be too much for you.

And you're going to be like The Who is this soldier with The Dirty fingers?

Yeah, I'm.

Going to say OK you know what thank you for reading it.

Can you go back to you're more than you've been told and you'll there's a really there's a really beautiful life giving like you're going to take a deep breath and you're going to understand Sabbath and rest in a new way.

39:24

So I just I can't believe we get to work together.

The only reason why I'm receiving what you're saying and not going to combat you is one I watch your videos on Instagram so I know you could take me.

And two, because never ever am I in a friend group with someone saying that I'm the kind sweet one.

39:44

I'm never that.

And so today I received that in the name of Jesus you are.

Jess is the one that wants to go to this pastors house.

She wants you in the dirt in the army.

And I just want you to have some grapes.

So I'm gonna receive that because I've never been that, I've always wanted to be that, and I received that name of Jesus.

40:02

I mean, you are also the fiery, passionate friend, but it's a little bit like what it's giving right now for me, if we want to talk like, you know, Gen.

Z, it's giving.

I think you're like John the Baptist.

But I'm a little bit like, what if John had lived to see Peter, you know, and might have been like, did John, John died while Jesus was still on earth, Right?

40:22

Yeah, it's so wild.

It is.

He mourned that friendship.

Jesus had mourned that friendship.

I do think about like, like I said earlier, like there's nothing new under the sun.

These biblical truths are timeless and forever.

But I constantly think, which is why you saying this over my life over and over is so fascinating to me.

40:40

But I do constantly think like So what would they say about social media?

So what would they say about church planning?

Right.

So what would they say about entertainment today?

This is important because Jesus gave us timeless lifelong truths.

But for how we apply these and unpack these in people's real, everyday lives, you know we need to be thinking about these things.

41:00

It's important we are the last generation alive that will have known life prior to social media and the Internet and with.

Social media and the Internet.

So it's important that we have conversations about it.

And I'm making a biblical truth trying to apply it.

And also for the record, I'm fine getting a whole bunch of this wrong.

41:16

I am thinking about it.

I'm having conversations about it with real life people on the Internet, not just textbooks.

And thinking, all right, Lord, how do we apply this to our lives.

And so that is why I I agree with you though about your book about rest is that it's for people that want to take that command of God seriously.

41:32

This isn't just like here's a whole book about.

Rest.

You should do it right.

It's like, do you wanna take this very seriously and practically and let it revolutionize your life?

I agree that I'm gonna have to be in dirt while reading this book, getting serious about do I wanna live the way I've been created to live or not.

41:49

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

I was gonna say about John the Baptist and Peter is that I do feel like if John the Baptist had lived that maybe he would have been like, I like the part where you cut his ear off.

That was funny.

And I I feel a little bit like that's how you talk to me sometimes.

42:05

I like the part where you cut his ear off.

I like the part where you wanted to drive to the pastors house.

I like the part where you said the part you have to read the book.

But I'm going to tell you right now that Jess, the quote that I say of Jess has to do with paper plates.

Yeah, it's very prophetic and practical.

42:21

It is.

It is really.

It's really sweet.

I felt really love that you even remembered that.

OK, the last thing I want to say, because we're using so many metaphors right now that I love it, All I do is think of metaphors, like we're talking about holes and paper plates and John and Peter.

42:37

But you do in the book talking about the fire a little bit.

And the reason why I think it's so important and beautiful is because a lot of people are listening in the fire and they're like, this is nice.

So I wanted to just end by You experienced a fire, a lot of your actual stuff burned.

42:56

Yes, it was horrific.

It is, yeah.

But when you talk to somebody who's in the metaphorical fire, who's like, oh must be nice, I can't even think about my identity and my trellis.

My life is smoldering.

43:14

Oh yeah.

I would say to you like, you're my people, you're our people, and I don't want to.

I don't want you to miss out on what God might have for you in the fire.

I don't want to say that God's going to set you free from the fire and then he's going to teach you something and bring you to a new place.

43:34

I don't want to say like just.

Pray that this fire goes away.

I don't want you to dismiss what God wants to do in the middle of the fire.

And This is why I've lived through some fires in my life.

The reason why I am so sure that this book is a now message for this moment is because it is here.

43:51

Because of many fires in my life.

And that has been fires of struggling with my identity at a very young age.

Having things taken from me that weren't supposed to be taken from me.

Fires of growing up, losing my dad at 18 years old.

Fires of.

Being called to ministry at a very young age and struggling with the church and what it means in my place in it and fires that brought out this message of identity at all.

44:19

A season where my husband and I had a lot of loss financially, relationally, physically.

The people we thought would stay didn't.

The people we thought would defend us didn't.

And this is where this identity message was sort of birthed, but it was through a metaphorical fire, Not the light kind, the kind where you still think about it a couple times a month and pray God I did the right thing, right?

44:41

God, I'm glorifying you the best way still right?

There's some memories in our lives that we're still being refined by through that fire.

And then a few years ago, we had a literal fire where all of our resources, books, curriculums, spoken word albums, devotionals burned in a fire.

44:59

We will never be able to reprint or reproduce any of those things in that fire.

But this is what I will say.

I'm so glad that I did not just wait for the fires to be over, for me to learn something about God and from God and about my life, because throughout our lives I think we're gonna experience a lot of fires.

45:19

I don't think the fire I'm in right now in my current life is going to end soon, and I don't think it'll be the last fire I deal with.

I don't think the answer is, Lord, bring me to a place where there's no pain this side of heaven.

I think we can invite God to show us who he is and more of who we are in the Bible.

45:36

We are refined by fire like gold.

It is through fire that gold is proven to be genuine and authentic.

I'll tell you right now, you're listening.

Probably because Jess Connolly has impacted you in some way, but she would not have had the authority or the wisdom had she not been refined by some fires.

45:53

It is through fire that our faith is proven genuine and pure.

Don't follow people that are talking about Jesus that haven't been refined by his fire.

Come on.

And so there has been some refining of fires, but there's also something that people need to see in the fire.

46:11

And at the end of the book I end.

A lot about the physical warehouse fire.

And I talk about a story of three teenagers who were in a fire who, you know, the king Nebuchadnezzar wanted them to bow to another God and they did not, and they were thrown into a fire.

46:28

And I I bring it out more in the book.

But one of my favorite parts of this story is when the three boys are in the fire, when they're in the middle of the fire, and before.

God sets them free from the fire before they're out of the fire.

King Nebuchadnezzar got as close as he could to the fire because the Word of God says he had to see it.

46:50

There's a watching world that wants to know what Christ's followers will do in the middle of a fire.

How can you be fearless, resilient, kind, gracious, compassionate?

How can you still love God and love your husband and love your family in the middle of a fire?

47:06

So we are refined by fire and also in the fire.

God is close to us in the fire, and there's something that a watching world needs to see about those of us who are not.

We are not exempt from the fires, but what will our faith look like and our hope look like and our empathy look like in the middle of a fire?

47:26

And so I know that this message came out of a fire, but also you who are listening.

Your life, you might have been defined by some fires in your childhood and your young adult life in your marriage right now.

And God wants to refine you in this fire.

47:43

And he also wants to show a watching world how he can be present in people's messy lives in the middle of a fire.

But in the middle of a fire, God is close to us and near to us and our suffering and our questioning and our wondering in a way that we will not experience unless we invite Him in in our fires.

48:02

So.

I'm not here to say I rebuke that fire in the name of Jesus.

You will have a life without fires for the rest of your life.

I'm just here to say that don't live in fear of the fire.

Come on.

Instead, be transformed by the fire, refined by the fire, and filled and fuelled by the fire of God.

48:24

You can go to the show notes and join our book club.

Join the book club.

What's called leaders are learners.

You can go to jessconnolly.com, back slash leaders and join the book club.

You can get your more than you've been told everywhere, right?

48:40

Yeah, should be everywhere.

And Hosanna, will you pray for the men and women who are about to read this book, or who maybe have already read it and are going to dive in again with us?

Yes, I will.

God, I just.

Thank you for Jess and this community she has built, and we pray for every person listening right now.

49:01

You know what they're caring today.

You know the weights.

They're caring that no one else knows that they're caring.

You know the battles that they're fighting, that nobody knows that they're fighting.

And God, we just invite you and make space and pray that you would come, that you would speak truth to the lies that we are believing.

49:23

That if we need it, God, that you would bring to mind memories, painful memories that we need to invite you into and be healed of, that you would come and heal.

Lies that we've been telling ourselves, God, that have trapped us in the wrong patterns of living.

And God, I just pray that we would be set free from these lies that have held us back and that you would reveal to us.

49:44

Who we really are so that we can start to live the lives we've been created to live and take new steps of faith without fear.

New steps of faith without fear of the opinions of people or the fears of the future or the fears of failing God.

50:00

I just want us to be set free, God from overthinking, from being afraid of the opinions of people or circumstances.

God can we just live as the free, healed and whole children of God we really are.

I just pray for Fresh Wind.

I pray for a fresh fire and I pray for a fresh breath.

50:17

God, that we would start to live lighter and freer and live as who we really are in the name of Jesus.

Amen.

Amen.

Friends, I'm so grateful you listened to today's episode.

50:34

Thanks for spending time with me.

It would mean the world to me to connect with you.

So you can send me Adm on Instagram at Jess A Connolly or head to my website jessconnolly.com for more ways to connect.

If you have a minute to subscribe and leave a review of the podcast wherever you listen, it would massively help us reach more people with the good news that they can live fully awake.

50:57

Let's go.