Episode 23: 4 Questions for Discipleship

Welcome to our podcast– The Jess Connolly Podcast!

Whether you call it discipleship, mentoring, leadership, spiritual formation - whatever you call it, having people to walk with us as we walk with Jesus feels really important. On this episode, you’ll hear Jess share her experience with mentorship and the 4 questions she’s asking as a leader and hopes that you’ll find them useful. Whether you’re a current mentor, discipleship leader, whether you crave those things or even if you feel REALLY turned off by them - this is for you! 

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Episode Transcript:

Hey friends, I'm Jess Connolly.

I'm an author, a coach, a Bible teacher and a local church leader.

And I love talking to real people who know what it means to have full lives but also want to walk in abundance.

This podcast is for you.

It's not my podcast, it's ours.

0:19

It's for people who crave light hearted conversations and deeply spiritual truth.

It's for people who are busy, tired, waiting, growing, dreaming, working, or praying about what's next.

Wherever you're listening from, if it's quiet, mundane or busy, I am praying for you.

0:39

And I'm so glad you're here.

Let's go.

Whether you call it discipleship, mentoring, leadership, spiritual formation, whatever you call it, having people to walk with us as we walk with Jesus feels really important.

0:56

But if I'm honest, for a lot of us, I feel like the enemy takes what could be a really good gift and turns it into one more thing we don't have or that we're not good at.

We're not sure how to lead other people, or we've seen it done in a harmful way, and we don't even know where to start.

1:13

Asking someone to pour into our lives, or asking if we can pour into someone else's.

Or maybe we feel so frustrated and dejected that we don't have someone to disciple us because no one's ever volunteered.

Whether you are a current mentor, a discipleship leader, whether you crave these things, or if you're really turned off by the idea of discipleship in general, this episode is for you.

1:42

Hey friends, the core of this episode is I'm going to share 4 questions that I think are really helpful to use in a discipleship relationship.

But before I get to those four questions, I wanna talk a little bit about the difference between mentoring and discipleship and coaching and pastoring and leadership.

2:01

And I wanna just highlight at the beginning that I'm sharing all of my kind of loose definitions for those things.

But I think there are are a myriad of different definitions that could all be right and could all be workable.

What I think is most helpful in our individual lives is knowing what our definitions are for these areas before we see movement or growth in them in our lives.

2:27

So as a person who leads a coaching business, a lot of times I get asked like what is the difference between coaching and discipling or coaching and mentoring and coaching and pastoring.

So I'll hit that one.

First of all, as a coach and as a coach who trains other women to be coaches, I believe that coaching is wildly different from counseling or pastoring or discipleship.

2:49

Mainly in that coaching is usually a relationship that you pay for, and what you are paying for is not the relationship, but the strategic help and steps to move forward in some area of your life.

So when someone hires me to be their coach, they're not paying for me to be their mentor.

3:09

They're not paying for me to give insight into their life.

They're not paying for my opinion.

They're not paying for proximity to me.

What they're paying for is for me to ask the right questions and give the right insight and give them the right tools to move forward in whatever it is I'm coaching them in, whether it's their calling or their job or their work or their business.

3:29

And this is so different from a mentoring or a discipling or a pastoring relationship where there's long term investment and shepherding and pastoring and maybe not as much strategic tips forward.

So, for example, you'll definitely hear me talk about this in this episode, but if I'm meeting with someone that I'm mentoring or discipling or even pastoring, I may not give them three action steps at the end of a coffee date.

3:57

A lot of what I'm gonna be doing is listening and walking with them and being there on a hard day.

And if they ask for my insight, I'm gonna share it.

Absolutely.

But I'm not gonna come ready to help them move forward and say, like, here's what I want you to do and here are your top three goals.

Now I personally love coaching, but I also love the distinction between coaching and pastoring because I feel called to do both.

4:20

So for me, that's the difference between coaching and, say, some other long term kind of relationship.

My personal definitions that help me delineate between mentoring and discipleship are this.

Again, these are just my delineations and my definitions.

To me, a mentoring relationship is really helpful if it's mentee LED, Mentee asked for, meaning that the person who's being mentored has gone to someone and said, hey, will you speak into my life?

4:49

This is a process that I'm learning through seminary as I have whole classes on mentorship and even part of my process in seminary is having to invite someone to be my mentor.

So as the mentee, I'm going and saying, hey, will you be my mentor and will you speak into these specific parts?

5:05

In my life, Discipleship.

For me, my personal delineation is I see discipleship as walking with someone as they walk with Jesus.

And in my personal life, I find the most fruit when I'm discipling a group of people at the same time.

5:21

And I'm going to talk a little bit about that.

But I also think discipleship can happen really organically if there's not a formal invitation for it.

So as opposed to mentorship, where someone goes and says, hey, will you be my mentor, discipleship can be a lot more organic.

5:36

That as we're walking together, we might see someone else growing in some way and it might inspire growth in US.

Pastoring to me is one person shepherding people collectively and individually for the long haul.

Walking with them, praying about what God has for them, praying about how to teach them and how to encourage them and how to exhort them, but also being present in their life.

5:59

And those are kind of just some of the delineations of how I see those different words.

So I want to just say like a back story for me about past discipleship relationships.

For me, my relationship with discipleship really started when I became a believer.

6:15

I met Jesus when I was 15.

I had a radical conversion experience, and I got plugged into a new church really quickly after that.

And there were a handful of women who were very obviously in a discipleship role for me, technically, formally, my youth leaders at my church, and they began discipling me in kind of organic and less organic ways.

6:38

And to be totally honest, that experience was life changing for me.

I still remember some of those conversations.

I remember getting called up by them.

Actually a few days ago, Nick and I were talking about some of the, like, most poignant corrections received in our life.

6:53

And I will never forget one of the most poignant corrections I received.

Within about six months of becoming a new believer, one of those leaders came alongside me and said, like, hey, I love you, but I don't know if you noticed this thing that you're doing and it absolutely changed my life.

Actually, I'm just going to tell you about it right now.

She came to me and she said, I don't know if you noticed that you're excluding people that, like, you have this like kind of power in a room to make people feel seen and to make people feel connected.

7:17

But I feel like sometimes you use it to make people feel excluded.

And I didn't know that about myself.

And since that day it's been really important to me to make people feel seen and to make them feel included.

I've been like kind of heating that exhortation for the last 25 ish years.

7:34

And so I had just really transformative discipleship relationships in high school that changed my life.

I had some discipleship relationships in college that were really helpful.

I would say to some degree, they were also like, maybe not as helpful.

And that's informed my perspective of what discipleship can look like.

7:53

And then I do not mind telling you that I had some discipleship relationships in early adulthood in my 20s that were massively damaging and that absolutely turned me off from formal discipleship for about a decade.

So some, like, liberties were taken.

8:11

I would say there was some spiritual abuse involved, a lot of which I don't feel comfortable sharing online.

But some uncomfortable things happen in those relationship that really made me feel like, you know what?

When Nick and I lead to church, I do not want to treat anybody like this.

8:27

And to be totally honest, I may have swung too far, almost anti discipleship for a long time.

And I had a hard time feeling like I could kind of individually lead people because I just didn't want to do it wrong.

8:43

And I felt so much of my capacity to mess this up and to hurt people that I probably actually again swung a little bit too far from discipleship.

But in those early years of us planting Bright City, I really became comfortable and saw a lot of growth in the realm of mutual discipleship.

9:04

And I would say I'm still a fan of mutual discipleship.

So for me, that looked like many, many years of doing life with women who were potentially in different seasons, who were maybe younger than me, who were maybe even like a couple steps behind me as far as life season.

9:19

And I hoped and prayed that they looked to me as someone they could learn from.

And occasionally they would ask me for insight and advice.

But I also felt like, you know what?

Even though you are 10 years younger than me, or even though we are in different seasons, I can also learn from you.

9:36

And I will ask you for insight and advice as well.

And I'll treat you like someone who wants God and is growing and is walking with God.

And hopefully you'll treat me that way too.

And we can learn from one another.

So I carried on in kind of a mutual form of discipleship for a long time until 20/22.

9:57

And in 2022 I had two different problems that led me to wanna start a more formal discipleship relationship in my life.

And those two problems were this.

Number one, I had a strategic problem.

I had a lot of women that I wanted to meet with or that wanted to meet with me and I did not have the time.

10:15

There was no way on earth I would just have been having coffee dates all week long and that wouldn't have loved my family well and it wouldn't have loved my work well.

And so I was like, gotta figure this out because this is not working.

I wanna be generous and I wanna sit and have coffee with everybody, but this is not the way I can best lead and love a handful of women.

10:32

Well, and the second problem was I was genuinely starting to feel disobedient.

I was realizing I had swung so far away from a healthy picture of discipleship.

That I wasn't intentionally pouring into people's lives.

That I wasn't giving them insight.

10:47

That I wasn't asking them hard and honest questions.

That I wasn't being like a safe person that they could learn from and share with.

And I didn't want to keep being disobedient.

I didn't want 10 more years to pass.

And people say I really wish Jess would have invested in me more intentionally.

11:05

And so I decided to make a shift and pray about a discipleship program that I could almost beta test for our church for us to use.

And that's how I came up with these four questions I'm going to share with you in just a minute.

Let's take a quick break.

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11:32

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15:26

As I knew I wanted to enter into a more formal discipleship relationship, I needed some, like, specific qualifications for who I would be meeting with.

And so again, at the time, I was meeting with a bunch of different women having coffee with, like, no aim to it.

Basically, like, let me just sit down and be available to you, which can be beautiful but maybe not as fruitful as we want it to be, and especially for the investment that that takes hours and hours and hours of coffee.

15:52

And so I started to just kind of ask God, like, all right, what kind of women would I be looking for?

And I really just came up with two different qualifications that I wanted to see in women that I would invite into a more formal discipleship relationship.

I wanted to speak into the lives of women, number one, who were organically or intentionally leading, whether they were in some kind of formal leadership in their work or in their job or in the church.

16:17

I wanted to know that like other people looked at them and said I'm following her, she's leading me.

The 2nd qualification that I was looking for was women who were currently asking me to speak into their life.

So there are lots of women in my life who are in leadership either organic or formally.

16:33

But they weren't coming to me and saying like Jess, I'd love for your insight on this.

I'd love for your wisdom on this.

And I knew that there needed to be some invitation from them or else I was going to be kind of forcing this discipleship on them, which I didn't want to do.

16:49

And so out of that, I asked four different women to join what I called a grow group, and I said, hey, will you kind of go on this journey with me?

I'd like to develop this group where we meet together.

I'm going to lead it.

We're going to meet twice a month, and here's what you can expect from me.

17:08

Here's what I'm going to expect from you.

Do you want to do this with me?

And we have now met together for about a year.

We've tried multiple kind of different iterations of how we want our meetings to go.

And walking through these four questions I'm about to share with you is really the kind of the formula that we've landed on that feels the most life giving and the most fruitful.

17:31

So I'm gonna share these four questions with you and then I'll also share some of the kind of like rules slash guidelines that help us have the most fruitful group we can.

So again, we go through the same 4 questions every time we meet.

For us, we meet twice a month and it takes about 90 minutes.

17:50

We try really hard not to meet in a coffee shop.

We either meet in a home or in a safe like space at the church where we can really talk and share and not everyone has to answer all four questions, but we walk through them in order and usually almost everybody ends up sharing a little bit of something for each question.

18:10

So the first question is what is bigger than you right now?

What is bigger than you right now?

And kind of the sub explanation underneath that question is what are you praying for.

So this could be some trial or some pain that feels bigger than them.

18:28

It could be some dream or some goal that feels bigger than them.

But the heart behind this question is to really I believe see growth in our life.

We have to acknowledge our limitations and we also have to want to see God bigger in our lives.

And so I want to kind of stir up this desire within women, for them to acknowledge something that is bigger than themselves and to be able to be vulnerable and honest about that, but also to identify it and maybe dream into that a little bit as well.

18:58

So the first question is what is bigger than you right now?

And the natural progression of that question is then we know how to pray for one another, so that gives us some action as a group to be able to come alongside them.

The second question is where do you need to step into the light?

19:18

Where do you need to step into the light?

Another way to say this is how do you need to be known?

And this is a question that provokes confession.

So this is where anyone can share some unconfessed sin.

They can share some fears or some struggles.

They're working through some weaknesses.

19:35

And I'll talk a little bit in a second about what it looks like for us to make sure that this group is safe for people to confess.

But I do believe that most people need a safe space to confess.

I believe that all of us need a rhythm of confession because sin is constantly in our life and it is constantly impacting us.

19:54

And if we don't have a safe space to say, hey, here's what I'm struggling with, and here's how I'm trying to release that, or here's how I'm trying to grow, or here's how I'm trying to even just be known and be honest about where I'm at with the Lord, then we won't make time and space to do it necessarily organically.

20:10

So number one, what is bigger than you right now, #2 Where do you need to step into the light?

#3 What are you learning about God?

So in my particular group, we've done a couple of different iterations where maybe we all read the same passage for 2020.

We're all reading the Bible chronologically, but we're going to kind of be at our own pace and our own schedules.

20:30

But this question really makes space to say, hey, I want to make sure that outside of this group you are pursuing knowing God, I want to make sure that for you to be in this group, I know that you're reading your Bible not because it's something to check off, but because I want to make sure that you are seeking to know God in whatever way that looks like for you.

20:49

So if you're reading a book, if you're reading the Bible, if you're reading a book of the Bible, if you're thinking on things, if you're listening to sermons, I just want to make space for you to have some place to not only process what you're learning, but testify to what you're learning and to have a rhythm in your life.

21:04

To remember that learning more about God is the beginning of the fear of the Lord.

It's the beginning of wisdom.

It's the beginning of humility, and it's the beginning of victory.

So #1 what is bigger than you right now?

#2 Where do you need to step into the light?

#3 What are you learning about God?

21:21

And #4 how can we be on your team?

So this is where this group really grows some legs and actually becomes a group of people who are helping one another, who are serving one another.

So I really try to press the girls in my group to not answer this question by saying you can pray about XY and Z because we already know how to pray for her because she answered that first question.

21:43

What's bigger than you right now?

So this might be OK Do you need help paying a bill?

Do you need help getting a babysitter this week so you can spend some time with your husband?

Do you need help coming and cleaning out your closet so you can get ready for the next year?

Do you need us all to show up to your birthday party and celebrate you well because it's been a hard year?

22:01

What do you need and how can we be on your team?

And there's no obligation here that we would all be able to do that thing or have to do that thing.

But it's also such a healthy practice for the person in the group to say, hey, a part of me growing is acknowledging what I need and what I need from other people.

22:18

And so we find this to be a really helpful part of the process.

Those are the four questions.

What's bigger than you right now?

Where do you need to step into the light?

What are you learning about God and how can we be on your team?

All right.

That being said, here are just some of the rules.

22:33

And I kind of set these rules with the group at the beginning of our time together and I'll revisit and remind people of them.

These are just kind of guidelines that I've learned can be really helpful from you know, decades of leading different groups.

So the first one is that like everyone has to feel safe.

22:49

And by saying that, we are saying like we're not going to share what you say outside of this group.

If anything like that happens, we're going to immediately admit it and and apologize.

I'm thrilled to say after a year of people being vulnerable in their confessions and their needs, I've never had any issue like that.

23:05

And to be honest, I've never really had any issue with that in a healthy group where we've acknowledged we want to be safe for one another anyhow.

But again, everyone is safe.

So I'm not going to go, like, share an anonymous prayer request about you to somebody else.

I'm not going to tell my mom or my sister what's talked about in this group.

23:22

We're going to keep people safe.

Of course we're going to be wise if anything needs to be reported or shared, but we're going to be upfront about that and honest about that.

And again, that hasn't been an issue in this group this year.

But people have to feel safe.

I think another part of feeling safe is knowing that there's not going to be condemnation or judgement.

23:39

If you're confessing something, if you're confessing a sin or a need or a prayer, you're not going to be like, talked down upon.

And if you're wondering how to make sure a group stays safe like that #1A, part of it is leading by example, but also continually saying, hey, as a reminder, this is what it means to be safe.

23:59

And you have to kind of revisit that culture over and over and over again to make sure it stays that way.

So even though all the women in my group know these rules, I'm going to repeat them pretty often.

A big part of how we keep everyone safe.

And this is a huge role for me in leading a group.

24:16

Huge.

Huge.

Huge is that no one gives advice unless someone asks them to.

So if you confess that you're struggling with like a certain area of your marriage or your parenting or your job or your leadership, or if you say like, oh, I'm even having this problem with my health.

No one is going to hop in and be like, hey, have you tried to supplement or you should pray this prayer or have you memorized this verse or have you read this book?

24:39

Now if the person says, guys, I'd really love some insight here, Will you give me some wisdom and will you give me some advice then lovingly, we try in a really Safeway to meet that need.

But I think one of the best ways that we can let people kind of unfurl and be safe and grow organically in a group is by not immediately trying to explain away their issues, trying to make them feel like, I don't know, that we have to be like, I understand that because of this, or immediately giving them advice.

25:08

And so just letting people say what they have to say and giving that time and space and spiritual space to breathe is really, really, really important.

The third rule is incredibly important to me.

And honestly, I think that it has a huge impact on the health of the group.

25:26

And it's one that again, I will revisit from time to time and remind the group gals of.

And that is that we show up and end on time.

So one way we can love each other well and all our variety varieties of life in different seasons is by just showing up on time.

25:43

So nobody has to repeat themselves or we don't have to wait.

But also, I make it a huge priority to end on time For us.

We happen to meet in the morning before work, and so people are needing to get into their rhythms or need to get into their things.

I'm needing to get into my rhythms and into my things.

25:58

And so we really try to honor this rule and we keep our meeting to about 90 minutes.

And again, we're doing that twice a month.

The last rule for me is a little bit more organic, and it's not as hard and fast, but that is that I want everyone in the group to be praying about someday replicating, meaning that they're always going to have access to me.

26:18

I'm always going to be on their team, but eventually I want them to be in a space where they could be leading other women in this way.

They could be kind of discipling or mentoring in the same way and asking these same questions and being available to other women in such a way.

26:34

And so that doesn't mean that we're like always thinking about when the group is going to end, but that we are always allowing God to speak into that and to give us insight about that.

I think in a best case scenario, all of us are going to be being poured into and pouring into others in every season of our life.

26:54

I think one of the reasons why I moved so heavily towards a more organic version of discipleship is because I really grew tired of this kind of fake level of discipleship.

That said, some women get to be mentors and some women get to be learners, and that if your life looks tidy from the outside that you get to be the mentor and you get to be the disciple, Uh, and everybody else has to learn from you.

27:17

And I don't believe that those things come with age or time or marriage or a tidy life.

I believe that our capacity and our authority to speak into other people's lives comes with humility and with wisdom and honestly with being people who are continually being poured into the day.

27:34

I stop letting other people mentor me and disciple me in The poor end of my life is absolutely the day that I should stop doing it for other people, because I have to practice the same humility that says I'm going to need correction and insight and wisdom from other people.

And so in my best case scenario, I'm always going to be in a season of pouring out and being poured into.

27:56

I just have a few really quick tips for you.

If you are wanting to initiate a relationship like this.

On either side of it, if you're wanting to pour into some people, or if you're wanting someone to pour into you through discipleship or through mentorship, I have three really quick tips.

28:11

Number one is you're going to have to be brave.

Please do not wait until you're not scared, and please do not wait until someone else comes to you, but do be brave and do go 1st and do ask for what you're hoping to see.

The second thing is please be very honest about expectations.

28:29

If you are the one who is going to be mentoring or discipling, you need to be very honest about how much you can actually pour out and how much you'll be there for them and how often you can meet.

And likewise, if you're the one who you want someone pouring into you, I want to encourage you to be really honest about what it is that you're hoping to get out of that.

28:47

Don't wait for a mentor or disciple or to lead that entire situation, but instead model good mentee living by leading the conversation and saying here's what I need, here's what I'm craving.

And then my last encouragement for you is start slow and don't over commit.

29:06

Don't say, hey, we're going to talk every single week for two hours a week.

Don't say we're going to meet every single week.

If you might not have time to, don't say I'm going to disciple 10 women.

If really you have the emotional and physical margin to disciple 3.

Whatever you do, start slow and don't over commit.

29:23

Let me pray for you before we leave.

It's an honor to have spent this time with you.

I love you.

God is mighty in you.

Let's go, Father.

I thank you for women who want to lead and want to be LED.

What do you just stir up?

Humility and desire.

29:38

And honestly, even some authority in us to remind our hearts that not only are we your ambassadors placed here on purpose, but we're also your daughters.

And we get to keep learning and we get to keep growing and we get to help other people as we do that.

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Would you give us bravery and courage as we move forward in these relationships?

Would you give us insight?

Would you give us wisdom and vision about the people that we're supposed to pour into and the people we need pouring into our lives?

Would you help us to stop saying no for other people and shutting ideas down before we even make the ask?

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And in the name of Jesus, would you help us to keep growing and humility and hunger and vigor and vision in Jesus name.

Amen, friends.

I'm so grateful you listened to today's episode.

30:30

Thanks for spending time with me.

It would mean the world to me to connect with you.

So you can send me a DM on Instagram at Jess A Connolly or head to my website, jessconnolly.com for more ways to connect.

If you have a minute to subscribe and leave a review of the podcast wherever you listen, it would massively help us reach more people with the good news that they can live fully awake.